The price of breaking the constitution is too low in western countries

Under my system Escobar and many others would get the death penalty (if they committed crimes distinct from those drug related, because their drug operations would be as legal as walmart is in my model), the deportation stuff only applies for sentences under 15y remember.

Maybe that's the part which you didn't get at first reading, it's not like they dodge the death penalty if they qualify. Maybe i didn't write that clearly enough though.

It's just that if their crimes carry say 8 years, you send them home instead of spending 300k on them.

For the vast majority of crimes you would consider really serious, they would get the death penalty anyway.

We're talking specifically about non-citizens serving time in US federal prisons. Keep up slowpoke.

Ok, maybe I missed that part. I forgot you see the world in black and white. I mean, I consider bank robbery a pretty serious crime for which someone should serve time, but I don't want to start executing bank robbers. Same for most financial crimes.

85% in federal prisons are americans, as per link. d2 said that proportion isn't the same in state prisons, maybe he is right i don't know.

I wrote about appeals wrt death penalty. First appeal as normal, then if you lose that, it's gg .

Oh i forgot another big thing in my model (my bad): default would be house arrest. No house arrest only in very specific cases (or if you have no house ofc). Death penalty if you break the terms of the house arrest though.

I don't think either qualify for more than 15y currently , except outrageous cases.

Tbh i don't see how keeping Madoff in jail till he dies is more humane than killing him the day after he loses appeal. I see that as prolonged torture with no practical benefits for society and much much worse than a painless death.

But serial criminals commit most offences, and almost always, the most serious ones. And getting rid of them as soon as you can improves society massively.

House arrest sounds fantastic honestly…

I wasn't talking about the proportion, just the absolute number.

Lol.

Like please give me house arrest, I’m begging you

What crime do I have to commit to have that?

My calendar says I have 238 appointments left for the year. Please. Please, can I have house arrest?

Agreeing with a Luciom post seems pretty criminal, so you might already qualify.

I think it should be the default for all crimes that aren't exceptionally serious. It costs far less for us (even if we include expensive monitoring technology), it reduces recidivism and so on and on.

I think the main objection to that comes usually from people who see the justice system as retribution. I don't, i see it as a way to get rid of a problem of society. I don't care to have the criminal "suffer", i just want society not to be negatively affected by his existence as much as possible.

Even if you disagree with the death penalty for 15 years or more of sentence, pretty sure we could start with automatic house arrest unless family members (if present in the house) disagree up to X years of sentencing and move from there. Technology exists to keep us safe from flight risks.

bank fraud on a massive scale would get you the death penalty, and even if it didn't, your home country will very probably jail one anyway for it.

Retribution is certainly one function of punitive incarceration, but deterrence is the one I'm focusing on here.

You can't rely on what my home country will do to deter me from committing crimes in your country. And yes, ok, if we go with your lolidea of executing people for financial and other crimes which are currently non capital offences, then I suppose your proposal "works" a bit better.

I’m against capital punishment though.. I don’t believe the government should have the right to execute people.

I understand , and i think deterrence would be the same in my model if not higher

White collar crimes like insider trading, I think.

No, we are executing people for that now. Just like that other great right wing libertarian society, China.

Why do you consider a "lolidea" the death penalty instead of life no parole? it's only because of a very twisted present time moral that many people consider life no parole more moral.

Many if not most ancient cultures would clearly think the opposite.

One of the most insane justification to prefer life no parole to the death penalty is the "so you have a chance to repent" for example.

Because I wouldn't give life no parole for bank robbery or bank fraud either. The lolidea was executing people for that.

Luciom.

How would we handle SBF? House arrest? Death penalty?

He's got 25 years I believe, he should come out when he's 55. Is that too young for death penalty? Is 25 years too much jail time so we should execute him instead?

Depends who they're executing.

I am not sure about what he actually did that was criminal (i can read the things he has been convincted for but they are very vague), how much if anything people lost and so on.

But starting from the idea that he stole billions from people of course death is reasonable? it's worse than 25 years at 30, but how isn't stealing billions an exceptional serious crime?

For 1 bank robbery out of the blue i wouldn't either. With precedents though you are almost certainly talking about a serial criminal (you have at that point to add crimes he must have committed which you haven't been able to identify in the past, by implication) so why not life no parole (or death if you could)? serial criminals are utterly incompatible with society.

Not sure what you mean with bank fraud but if you ruin hundreds of families (if not many more) how are you compatible with society? i don't understand your position.

Your position seems to be that sentences should be: house arrest, 8 years imprisonment or less, or execution. I am saying there are plenty of crimes that are worth more than 8 years and less than execution.