Terrified with KK

H rarely has a 9 here, and V almost never has TT, JJ -- If they do, they don't play it this way. I wouldn't, and yes, I would fold unless I have a specific read on H.

Speaking of which, how does V perceive H?

At least A9, TT, JJ "have to" call a 1/2 pot bet on the river (a 10$ bet is equivalent to a check here).

I mean, with the double straddle on, this is not a 500+ BB plot, where ranges are pretty narrow.
After checking flop, we should call V's turn bet with almost any pair, and probably strong BDFDs.
If V is never calling river with worse than KK, then we can just print money by floating turn and betting river with our entire preflop range.

I might agree if we were very deep, although in that case we should have at least A7s, 76s and 87s in our preflop raising range from the BTN.

Anyway, starting with 66bb effective, and holding KK on a 773 board, I do not see how anybody can make our life miserable.

Treat it as a check and bet (raise). I find it hard to believe he would pass on so much value with quads or 99.

So, you guys are playing TT/JJ this way and calling on river? Poker lives.

Well, seeing the hand now from V's perspective: being on the double straddle, we might 3bet preflop with TT/JJ, but that is not mandatory, imo.

If we flat pre, then flop and turn seem fairly standard. On the river, I would probably mix bet/fold and check/call, also depending on my reads on H.

Now I am curious about how you would play TT/JJ if you were V 😀

I bet flop
1) for value, because I expect almost any pp to call.
2) for protection against the random AX.
Not particularly happy to get raised, but not too worried either, especially if I get raised by a V who's aggressive and used to much higher stakes (so probably with some tendency to bully the table).

As played, on the river I bet for sure for value, if not 200, at least 150. If we get raised, we do not beat any value, and it would take a fairly special player to bet 10$ and then bluff shove, so I think we should fold despite the good pot odds.

Honestly, I can understand a river check back (call the 10$) only if we are scared money, which was most probably V's goal when double straddling.

Depending on H, I 3bet pre. Mostly 3betting. Once I flat, I am pretty much done. I don't mind the bet on the turn, but once H calls, if H bets anything decent on river, I fold -- again, though, it depends on how I perceive H. I mean, what is H calling turn with that he'll bet on river into me (after raising pre)? A lot of this is H's image.

Grunch:

I'd raise bigger pre, at least $60. We have four players to get through, with the end-boss in the straddle.

Probably betting around $80 on flop, just to clean up some equity and build the pot, and just going bet, bet, bet depending on the runout.

As played on flop, I think we can raise turn, to $300, but calling seems fine.

As played on turn, I think we should raise river, probably all in. If he's got AA, 99, or 7x, nice hand, good game. Seems like he might have been drawing to the nut flush, or has some worse PP or 9x and might look us up light.

Don't understand how this isn't just the easiest bet bet shove board ever. What kind of range building is ''if he calls he only has 7x and 99''?

You guys who bet the flop: If you get raised, is your plan still to gii? I am fine with it if that is your plan.

I'm not reraising if that's your question, but I'm not folding and I'm not folding on this specific run out.

This is where H comes in again. I play with guys who will never fold KK here and those who snap fold -- knowing the difference is key -- and how they play KK vs AK, etc., on this river. V is the "best player in the room," so you'd think he has some idea.

For reference - this V has played on TV, tours europe and plays wsop. Thats what I mean when I say he's good.

Result:

A $100 1/5th PSB would only have to be called 20% of the time to match a decent hourly wage at 1/3 NL.

Gmissedvalue,imoG

I still disagree, those things really don't mean he's the best player in the room (look at what he called 50 pre with OOP in 1/3).

Also,

Well, you just saw first hand that not only he isn't good, but that he's in fact terrible.

I'm not disagreeing with the idea of having reads, obviously. I'm saying we're beating the majority of his range and bet bet shove seems totally standard here.

My original criticism was towards people saying ''if he calls x it's only 7x and 99'' this is just nonsense.

Not a good call at all. The river is basically a check and hero checked back KK on 77397

Also vs terrible players when you raise you often get calls with bottom pair, because they think you had a busted draw or something, even though they themselves are blocking the god damn draw!

It wasn't a check, he bet either to block bet/get to SD cheaply or to induce a raise if he had a 7. If we raised he's only calling/re-raising with hands that beat us, which was my point.

The river is basically a check.

He bet $10 into $470. That's not even a block bet. It's nothing.

It's a terrible call.

I don't doubt V is at least decent at higher stakes, but we basically have polarised reads on him at these stakes, because we don't know if he's goofing around or trying to bully the scare money.

We started the hand with 800 in 1/3. It's not "terrible" to not wanna go broke with a pocket pair, ESPECIALLY if we're planning to raise/fold vs a guy who flashes around 100K in cash (I'm never raising if I have to fold, I'm only raise/calling, but that's just me).

Seems as if he is just screwing around for fun, which makes me believe even more that he isn't calling with worse (unless he likes giving $ away, which might be the case) and probably never has TT/JJ here. J3 is terrible, obviously, but not a bad bet on that turn. At least we got that out of him. I wonder what he would have done had H bet flop...