Dealer Messed Up - WWYD?
Playing 2/2 PLO in local room.
Dealer is a regular dealer that has been dealing since I have started playing poker in the NH rooms ~ 2010ish. Guy is usually funny, but can be an airhead make mistakes, seems like he is just a space cadet.
Anyway on to the situation -
Player A and Player B are all-in on the turn - dealer drops the stub, spreads the remaining deck out, essentially into the muck, asks players to reveal their cards. Players state that the river has not been dealt yet, dealer collects the spread out deck, deals the card. Player A complains immediately, floor comes over, floor states the dealers actions stand.
Should the dealer get spoken too? Players should have obviously made a stink before dealer picked up stub? Dealer definetly knew he was in the wrong and expressed to the floor that he did everything by the book, and that the stub never was intertwined with the muck.
That is nothing close to the claim being made. You truly do not need to defend Mason Malmuth on this point lol.
I don't see what the argument is. Obviously Mason doesn't think the dealers are literally your employees.
He's giving a reason why you should expect good service from them. If you don't think good service should be expected from someone you're tipping, then feel free to make that argument.
There are many dealers that are excellent or at least good, but I agree there are a significant number that talk way too much (I don’t mind some chatter but I am talking like 30 minutes of straight conversation with one or two players at the table) and are sloppy/not paying attention/dealing slowly/complaining about having to deal a game that isn’t hold em, having to deal a tournament, not thanking people for tips, etc. and sometimes dealers like that (and again they are usually less experienced ones and they are far from the majority) can turn a good table into a slower one with less action. There also is much less attention to procedure than when I first started playing — for example, the number of newer dealers that roll the deck is pretty tilting. Do I think there is anything nefarious going on? No but it is a basic game integrity issue that no one tells them about or enforces. When they have to hand shuffle, many of the newer dealers do it sloppily. I have seen dealers cut the deck wrong (not full cut or two handed cut etc) and no one says anything. I used to occasionally point things out, but people think you’re crazy and it leads to confrontation, so I just keep my mouth shut but I tip the better dealers much more and the worse ones less (not stiff unless they are really bad but less). I think there needs to be a way to reward the great dealers beyond them getting a couple more hands out. It makes the casino more money and it makes the player experience much better, and since they can track it I think the best performers should be rewarded more like at regular jobs (cash incentives, shift preference etc.). Not sure what it is but I really appreciate good dealers these days more than ever. And I like friendly dealers too, I am not saying they should be robots at all, just competent and care about their jobs. Many do and I appreciate them.
Aren't you paying rake? I think that does make the dealer your employee since you're the one paying for him.
Okay man.
He's giving a reason why you should expect good service from them. If you don't think good service should be expected from someone you're tipping, then feel free to make that argument.
This is a motte-and-bailey argument. Facing the lightest challenge of your more controversial argument (that poker dealers are the employees of poker players), you retreat to the more modest and agreeable one (that good service should be expected from someone you're tipping).
Worse, you imply that anyone who disagrees that dealers are our employees might be wanting to argue that good service should not be expected. That is cheap and insultingly transparent.
And as JimL points out, the original claim was that any employment relationship is formed between the dealer and the ones paying rake, not tips. This is a fairly short thread!
I don't see what the argument is. Obviously Mason doesn't think the dealers are literally your employees.
He's giving a reason why you should expect good service from them. If you don't think good service should be expected from someone you're tipping, then feel free to make that argument.
First of all, Mason's argument was based off of paying rake made them players employees. He then moved the goalpost to tips.
Secondly, as a dealer, I will say that there are often significant differences between what the casino (my actual employer) and players expect from me. Sure they both want a smooth running game with lots of hands dealt, but the priorities of the behind the scenes stuff can vary widely.
For example, a few weeks ago I participated in a thread about dealers counting their racks. Players absolutely hate when dealers are distracted by their racks. Understandably. However for a casino this is an important task. The casino is my employer so they set the priorities.
The other night when I was posting I thought back to one of the first casino jobs I had. There was a new restaurant that opened in the casino. As dealers, we were supposed to talk up the restaurant. The casino actually offered incentives to dealers to promote the restaurant. If a floorperson went by a table and there was a conversation about the restaurant, the dealer would be rewarded with a small monetary reward. This means that dealers were encouraged to talk about the restaurants. Talk.
Now as a player, Mason would absolutely hate a dealer talking (generally I agree with him and do not think he is wrong), but here the casino is encouraging dealers to promote and talk about a restaurant.
The word "Employer" has a very specific meaning. If a person's argument requires them to change the definition of words their argument probably isn't very strong.
Okay man.
This is a motte-and-bailey argument. Facing the lightest challenge of your more controversial argument (that poker dealers are the employees of poker players), you retreat to the more modest and agreeable one (that good service should be expected from someone you're tipping).
Worse, you imply that anyone who disagrees that dealers are our employees might be wanting to argue that good service should not be expected. That is cheap and insultingly transparent.
And as JimL points out, the ori
I certainly never claimed that players are the employers of dealers, so I didn't make any "controversial argument". I'm not sure if you're making a logical error hear, have poor reading comprehension, or just bad memory.
And I'm sure it was obvious to most people that Mason didn't literally mean that either or else he would have told the OP to just fire the dealer or send him home early or write him up. He's saying that dealers should consider players to be their employers and act accordingly.
Of course that is just his opinion, and as JimL just pointed out, dealers' actual employers often want different things than do the players.
I would say they should keep in mind the old saying that "the customer is always right" except then I would expect you to go on a rant about how customers are wrong many times, again completely missing the point.
