2024 Presidential Debate 2 Electric Boogaloo
Starting off to a great start where first question is not answered and ignored and they just go straight into talking points
I don’t think kamala knocked it out of the park by any means. She was obviously miles better than biden but I had higher expectations
Trump on the other hand was a total disaster and is why you don’t let the elderly who would see a Fox News commercial that says ‘only 20 left, call now!’ then panic, call and buy 50 run for president
‘I saw it on tv’ and ‘I have concepts of a plan’ are lines he won’t live down except with people who have their fingers in the ear eyes closed saying fa la la la I can’t hear you while they cast their ballot
‘I saw it on tv’ has to be the single most disqualifying line I’ve ever heard. Mother****er you were literally the president of the United States for four ****ing years privy to intelligence nobody on earth is privy to
And you saw it on tv?
I think to me, as probably one of the older people now in this forum, and having lived through a lot of previous presidential campaigns, elections and debates, I remember what it was like when actual adults held the room. Because what is going on right now is an absolute tragedy. A real life, you almost can't fkn believe what you're watching, tragedy.
I'm watching this debate, almost disassociating from what I'm watching thinking, this can't be real. There can't actually be real life adults that look at Trump and think, "yeah, this guy is an intelligent and wise leader." Wtf is going on? There must be a lot of other "adults" with some serious anger and pain in their lives, and they can somehow relate to whatever TF Trump is trying to portray.
I think I did realize that this whittling away at decency, decorum, and the truth has led us collectively to a space where a literal buffoon is potentially steps away from the presidency again, AFTER committing an attempted coup previously. And now he's had four more years to perfect his plan.
The onslaught of the big lies, continually pummeled on the American people have them all not knowing which way is up or down anymore. It's creating boogie men, like the deep state, that is so corrupt and ruinous and filled with communist sympathizers, that the only way to fix it is to overthrow the government and do away with democracy. There's no democratic principles that can fix this mess. You have to tear it all down and create a new system, based on the ideas of the few patriotic Americans who are clear eye enough to see what's "really going on."
That's at least what they said in 1940, when Christian nationalist first tried to overthrow the government in favor of Nazi Germany. Same plan... same language. Same boogie men.
And here we all are just repeating history once again... like utter fools.
‘I saw it on tv’ has to be the single most disqualifying line I’ve ever heard. Mother****er you were literally the president of the United States for four ****ing years privy to intelligence nobody on earth is privy to
And you saw it on tv?
That's one of the craziest things about him. Like I'd understand if someone like me (occasionally unbelievably unproductive) won and then spent four years just reading classified intelligence, talking with scientists and CEOs and other smart people while scratching my balls and eating great white house food, but that idiot just golfed and watched Fox News while stuffing his face with McD. Unbelievable waste of time.
When she said she was pro-fracking, either moderator could have brought up her comment from 2020 to CNN "There’s no question I’m in favor of banning fracking.”
She said she was pro-fracking directly after a question about her flip-flopping on fracking. I think they even directly mentioned her statements in 2020 no? I mean this is way different than Trump just randomly lying about being able to kill babies after birth, or not directly answering a question about whether he'd ban abortion.
Even if I grant you this, Trump got to have the last word on pretty much every single question. Some people would say that's way worse than being very mildly fact-checked after you spew massive lies. He lied about 20+ million illegals saying he thought it was "way more" than 20 million. He said that Venezuela is becoming one of the safest places to live in the world. He said that they do abortions AFTER BIRTH.
Not calling her out for the Charlottesville comments that were debunked, the whole "very fine people" quote taken out of context that she brought up.
How exactly were those debunked?
Look, it's very easy to fact-check Trump every time he says something, because he's either lying or saying something deranged. But at least pretend that it's not 3-on-1.
That's why they said "thank you Mr President" after every one of his deranged answers.
She said she was pro-fracking directly after a question about her flip-flopping on fracking. I think they even directly mentioned her statements in 2020 no? I mean this is way different than Trump just randomly lying about being able to kill babies after birth, or not directly answering a question about whether he'd ban abortion.
Even if I grant you this, Trump got to have the last word on pretty much every single question. Some people would say that's way worse than being very mildly fact-checke
What does this say about the respect he has for the intelligence of his supporters? They are saying these things for a reason. There's actual real life humans that believe these things.
There's no democratic principles that can fix this mess. You have to tear it all down and create a new system, based on the ideas of the few patriotic Americans who are clear eye enough to see what's "really going on.".
There is a fix. Stop using the electoral college. Donald Trump got about 3,000,000 less votes than Hilary Clinton in 2016. The American people voted for him not to be president. But he fluked a rare "lose the popular vote, but win the electoral college" presidency. After four years of Trump as president, there was record turnout for the 2020 election not seen as a percentage of voters in more than a century and Donald Trump got about 7,000,000 less votes than Joe Biden. In the last two elections millions more American voted to not have Donald trump as president. This crap is only close because of the electoral college. Donald Trump saying, "I saw in on TV" is enough to have him lose the popular vote again by millions, but there are enough red states and purple states that this unhinged clown is still a coin flip to win the presidency.
I don't know if I will live long enough to see the change to popular voting for president, but it will happen just like how congress senator voting finally changed to popular vote in 1913 or so by 17th Amendment. National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPVIC) / new Amendment for the presidency sooner than later please.
People comparing Harris making reference to the well-known "very fine people" thing to Trump still claiming he won 2020, or that immigrants are eating people's pets, or post-birth abortions? Yeah no kidding Trump got fact-checked more often
Tossing the EC will help but the electorate is still the root of the problem. Civic literacy has never been great but it's definitely deteriorated in my lifetime and getting worse & it will catch up to us. Maybe with Trump or maybe down the road a bit but we're pretty close to losing what control we still have over our representation.
I still don't understand this, the "very fine people" being debunked thing. In the whole context, it's clear he's defending white nationalist. It was framed as him only saying that Neo-nazi's were very fine people, that's how the press works, but it's clear he's defending their position even if he goes on to condemn them as well. White nationalist went on later to also thank Trump for defending them. So the comment was distorted and not entirely fair, but he was sticking up for them... clearly.
R
I don't now. The context of the full quote kind of proves Jimmy's point. Trump definitely plays to those groups, and there some pretty explicit examples of it, but this isn't one of them. It's cited often because of what happened in Charlottesville. He could have said "and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because I condemn them totally—so he may have tiptoed around things there—but the fact that he had the same position as them on the statues isn't inexcusable, and when media and political opponents use the quote out of context, they discredit themselves.
Amazing amount of "Harris had the questions given to her to prepare!!11" cope on right wing twitter. Completely not getting the part that you'd have to be a massive idiot like Trump to not figure out those questions are going to get asked.
I’m kind of mixed on the electoral college, because I think it’s kind of good that presidents are forced to go to different states and make their case to then individually. I’m not opposed to abolishing it but I see its use in making sure we’re able to keep the nation united.
However one could argue the congressional and senate seats perform this task on their own, so as long as we keep that we should be fine making the presidential election by popular vote.
According to politico, Harris won the debate by a good margin
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/11...
WaPo had a panel of 25 swing state voters, approx half leaning trump, they said 23 to 2 Harris won
https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections...
CNN instant poll of a group that split 50/50 pre debate, has Harris winning 63/37
https://x.com/mkraju/status/183371868243...
Poly market had Harris chance of winning moving from approx 46 to 49 (this includes good swing state poll coming in yesterday pre debate though).
I’m kind of mixed on the electoral college, because I think it’s kind of good that presidents are forced to go to different states and make their case to then individually.
Yeah, all the 7-8 swing states? I think popular vote would serve that much better because you'd still want to get the available votes from Kentucky or whatever.
Yeah, all the 7-8 swing states? I think popular vote would serve that much better because you'd still want to get the available votes from Kentucky or whatever.
The swing states are the function of red and blue states, and they can change over time. Georgia wasn’t really considered a swing state until recently, now it is one of the most hotly contested states, and Florida was considered a swing state but now is firmly a red state.
The swing states are the function of red and blue states, and they can change over time. Georgia wasn’t really considered a swing state until recently, now it is one of the most hotly contested states, and Florida was considered a swing state but now is firmly a red state.
Well whatever they happen to be for an election year, anyways it means that campaigns are focused on those states, which goes against why you said EC is good. I couldn't find list of events for Harris, but quick look at wikipedia gives me Wisconsin, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan, Arizona, Nevada, NC, Georgia. Not really what I'd imagine a good system that "forces to go to different states" to be. (though I feel that list is missing a bunch)
I still don't understand this, the "very fine people" being debunked thing.
[...]
Reporter: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville.
Trump: Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. [...]
The problem with Trump's statement is that the Charlottesville rally did put themselves down as neo-Nazis. They were literally chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "
". It was a white supremacist rally and clearly organized as such. Maybe someone wants to split hairs and say "hey, those guys in that group over there weren't Nazis, they' were just alt-right who blame the Jews for everything, and those guys over there were the KKK", but that seems like a pretty bad semantic place to be.
From Wikipedia: Among the far-right groups engaged in organizing the march were the Stormer Book Clubs (SBCs) of the neo-Nazi news website The Daily Stormer, The Right Stuff, the National Policy Institute, and four groups that form the Nationalist Front:the neo-Confederate League of the South and Identity Dixie, the neo-Nazi groups Traditionalist Worker Party, Vanguard America, and the National Socialist Movement.
At best you can say that he wrongly believed this was a conservative rally where some Nazis happened to show up, but given that one of these Nazis killed a woman in a politically motivated attack and he was commenting on that event as the President of the United States of America, that would also be completely inexcusable.
And regardless if was in error, the net result would still be that he called a bunch of Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists very fine people, and gave the far right in the US their greatest political victory in the last 5 decades.
Well whatever they happen to be for an election year, anyways it means that campaigns are focused on those states, which goes against why you said EC is good. I couldn't find list of events for Harris, but quick look at wikipedia gives me Wisconsin, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan, Arizona, Nevada, NC, Georgia. Not really what I'd imagine a good system that "forces to go to different states" to be. (though I feel that list is missing a bunch)
Again just to be clear, I’m not trying to come off as a huge fan of the electoral college or anything, but I do think it’s good that there are some states that people have to go to that each side really has to fight for because they’re a toss up if they want to win the presidential election. And we also have to remember that during the primary people really do have to go to Cali, NY, and deep red states, whether that’s the Dems or Reps. So absolutely there is a general election where certain states that tend to be more centrist have the most say, but in the interim no one can win the presidency without going to those other states as well.
And no, I still think all states are involved even without the campaign rallies. Look at the political parties in those states and how they operate year round. Democrats still spend plenty of money in CA. Furthermore Dems contribute lots of money in CA. Despite general election campaign stops, these states will always have huge power in our system.
Kaitlan Collins of CNN interviewed both JD Vance and Trump (very briefly) in the spin room after the debate.
Vance doubled down on his claims of Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio, abducting and eating pets, saying his office was getting lots of calls and emails about it.
Trump cited three unnamed polls that had him winning the debate, throwing out the numbers 93%, 86%, and 77%, and claimed there were many other unnamed polls that showed him winning as well.
CNN reporters all viewed it as a sign of desperation that Trump would even visit the spin room, though Vance defended Trump's move as an example of him liking to talk to the people.
For those who want the full context on his "fine people on both sides" quote, here's the press conference at which he said this:
What I find remarkable is how much more vigorous and specific he was back then. He's still combative but seems much slower and duller today. Dare one say "low energy"?
I agree it's absurd that a man who's ranting about dog-eating Haitian immigrants in Ohio and abortions in the ninth month and even after birth is a coin flip to win the presidency.
The problem with Trump's statement is that the Charlottesville rally did put themselves down as neo-Nazis. They were literally chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "
". It was a white supremacist rally and clearly organized as such. Maybe someone wants to split hairs and say "hey, those guys in that group over there weren't Nazis, they' were just alt-right who blame the Jews for everything, and those guys over there were the KKK", but that seems like a pretty bad semantic placeMan, what rock have I been living under? I knew there were white nationalist groups there, but I didn't realize it was just them. There was so much discussion in the news and on social media about the matter of the statues that in my head I equated conservatives with the makeup of a lot of the protests.
Man, what rock have I been living under? I knew there were white nationalist groups there, but I didn't realize it was just them. There was so much discussion in the news and on social media about the matter of the statues that in my head I equated conservatives with the makeup of a lot of the protests.
It wasn't just them, but they have to pretend they were, to keep up with the false narrative. All debunked since a while ago even by mainstream media. Doesn't matter at all. Harris even brought up the completly debunked "bloodbath" claim, which was about the automotive industry.
They fabricate post truths and run with them for years, incessantly, then project it's republicans who live in a post truth universe.
