Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
heres a good video on why the whole Russian propaganda thing is just complete bullshit in almost all cases.
you could even say that "Russian propaganda" is a way to stifle any criticism of Western Imperialistic interests and actions.
So I actually watched this. Here are some actual quotes:
"USA has built an empire where they influence other countries and then those countries try to influence the USA. Like what kind of world are we living in?"
The world. This is the world.
"They're (USA) living in some fairytale world where we can influence every other country but they should just sit back and hope things work out the best for them"
"Yeah when you lay it out like that it's totally absurd."
No, what is absurd is that they apparently think USA should just help out everybody regardless of their stance on USA and then everything will be better, yet they call the real world the fairytale world... What a naive circle jerk this was. I don't know why Ukraine is exempt from USA helping for some reason, that's bizarre.
There is nothing wrong with USA's charity organizations giving money to organizations that aren't anti-America... I mean wtf. Not giving that money to pro-China organizations isn't the sinister thing they're trying to make it out to be.
The majority of this is just complaining about USA's democratic process which is certainly something which deserves some critiques. They take your approach of not really defending their own stances, they just say that USA bad.
Saying that money sent to Ukraine could be better spent in South America building houses is not a Russian propaganda point. It's silly, but no one is going to claim that is a Russian propaganda point. It's worrying that they claim hundreds of billions have been sent to Ukraine already, or that 3 years is a "forever war", but I do believe these people mean well, they're just naive and uninformed. What a weird video, and it really has little to do with whether or not Russian propaganda is Russian propaganda. (It is.)
I’m confused as to how that shows that there are “boots on the ground” even if it were true. It is being denied by both France and UK. Given it has been 7 months since it was said and no further report corroborating it, I’d say it’s fake news.
As far as the Le Monde article, this is not what anyone refers to as “boots on the ground” it is talking abou
It's bullshit and nonsense. I'm saying that 27o is regurgitating Russian propaganda much like David Sacks is here. They even use the same rhetoric.
Here's some more about the proxy war he's referring to:
Horseshoe. They're being fed propaganda from the same source.
That’s what I thought lol yeah I agree he’s just regurgitating the America bad talking points.
Country A invades country B including bombing its capital. Country B retaliates and strikes within country A's borders.
Country A is outraged?
The Wolf and the Lamb, By Jean de La Fontaine
The reason of those best able to have their way is always the best:
We now show how this is true.
A lamb was quenching its thirst
In the water of a pure stream.
A fasting wolf came by, looking for something;
He was attracted by hunger to this place.
—What makes you so bold as to meddle with my drinking?
Said this animal, very angry.
You will be punished for your boldness.
—Sir, answered the lamb, let Your Majesty
Not put himself into a rage;
But rather, let him consider
That I am taking a drink of water
In the stream
More than twenty steps below him;
And that, consequently, in no way,
Am I troubling his supply.
—You do trouble it, answered the cruel beast.
And I know you said bad things of me last year.
—How could I do that when I wasn’t born,
Answered the lamb; I am still at my mother’s breast.
—If it wasn’t you, then it was your brother.
—I haven’t a brother.—It was then someone close to you;
For you have no sympathy for me,
You, your shepherds and your dogs.
I have been told of this.I have to make things even.
Saying this, into the woods
The wolf carries the lamb, and then eats him
Without any other why or wherefore.
"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them."
Funny how Russia has been bombing Ukraine daily for however long and yet Ukraine attacking Russia is what is brought up by the person regurgitating Russian propaganda.
No mention of the guy who watched his three daughters and wife get killed, or the Russian drone unit releasing videos as they laugh about killing civilians. No mention of the supermarket bombing in Kharkiv. No mention of the largest bombing effort against Kyiv which happened recently.
Sounds like you don't know what "anecdotal" or "ragebait" means.
Scott Ritter Warns: NATO's Proxy War Pushes Ukraine to the Brink of Destruction!
That certainly sounds familiar
It is a proxy war according to some definitions btw.
It just isn't a bad thing that it is a proxy war
Right, the loosest definitions.
Funny how Russia has been bombing Ukraine daily for however long and yet Ukraine attacking Russia is what is brought up by the person regurgitating Russian propaganda.
No mention of the guy who watched his three daughters and wife get killed, or the Russian drone unit releasing videos as they laugh about killing civilians. No mention of the supermarket bombing in Kharkiv. No mention of the largest bombing effort against Kyiv which happened recently.
I guess it's more like don't escalate more and push us towards zomg nuclear war.
I guess if Russia was to launch a nuc anywhere it would be NATO/America to blame?
Putin's hands are tied, what else could he do?
He can end the war.
Putin launching a nuke would not end the war, would almost certainly cause China to stop supporting Russia, and could result in NATO engaging Russia.
Russia's escalation is no longer Ukraine facing, they've escalated about as much as they can there. But yes, in the unlikely event he does use a nuke there will be useful idiots claiming that NATO is to blame.
ahhh it might
this scott ritter guy is a bit of an idiot tho I think hes been saying russia will win within months for 3 years now. I would like to think russia dropping a nuke would get us together to stop ****ing around and ending the war. because the alternative is not very fun for anyone
this scott ritter guy is a bit of an idiot tho I think hes been saying russia will win within months for 3 years now. I would like to think russia dropping a nuke would get us together to stop ****ing around and ending the war. because the alternative is not very fun for anyone
He's really turned into a clown. His claim to fame was calling BS to the WMD's pre Iraq invasion.
Russia has begun counterattacking Kursk. We are about to find out if this whole thing was a good idea, I am very skeptical.
any idea on the numbers
Fog of war and all that, but a huge Russian column attacked Snagost, which I think is the direction where the Russian group was cut off and trapped in. The column did not seem to suffer many losses which is really concerning.
It means you should not bring up how the Russians indiscriminately attacks civilians and civilian infrastructure, because it makes defending Russia look bad.
But sure, we can forego anecdotal: “Intentionally directing attacks against a protected hospital is a war crime, and perpetrators must be held to account”, she asserted, adding that these incidents are part of a deeply concerning pattern of systematic attacks harming health care and other civilian infrastructure across Ukraine. Attacks have intensified since the spring of 2024. The World Health Organization (WHO) has verified 1,878 attacks affecting health-care facilities, personnel, transport, supplies and patients since February 2022. Attacks have also significantly impacted homes, education facilities, office buildings and public transport. And they have disrupted millions of households’ electricity, gas and water supplies. Energy production capacity across the country is significantly reduced. As a result, over 14.6 million people — about 40 per cent of Ukraine’s population — require humanitarian assistance. These attacks are also impacting aid operations: just last week a strike destroyed an apartment block immediately in front of the United Nations offices in Dnipro City.
Of course, when we forego anecdotal we will be told we are pushing propaganda or showing only one side, so the protest isn't really offered in good faith.
There is of course also the matter that you should not forego anecdotal. Ukraine isn't defending its country from Excel spreadsheets and statistical analyses, it is defending it from the horrors Russian are inflicting in these missiles strikes, and the continued horrors they would inflict in areas they occupy, like we saw in Bucha.
I kept posting 20 Days in Mariupol and the NYT doc on Bucha, but for some reason I've seen no indication that the people I've posted it for have watched it. Really a shame, I guess they're just too busy reading their real news sources.
Instead of watching them, it was just brought up that USA has done bad things too.
There's a lot of opportunity cost for Kursk, unfortunately I think the worst case scenario is a good bit worse than this. If Ukraine had just kept doing what it was doing then there was a high probability that they would stabilize the lines before winter while still holding Donetsk. That is no longer as high a probability scenario.
