$2/$5 Combo Draw turns flush very deep (am I a nit?)

$2/$5 Combo Draw turns flush very deep (am I a nit?)

Very deep $2/5 game, effective stacks $2,300. I am new to this table don't know any of the players but have seen the limper play fishy
One limper to me on the btn with T9c I open to $20 get called from the sb and the limper calls (utg).

Pot ~60
Flop:
6c,7c,2h
Sb checks, limper donks $30 ( he is not a thinking player) I just call on the btn with my combo draw. Sb CR to $130, limper calls I overcall.

Pot ~450
Turn is a 5c giving me the flush. Sb leads for $100, limper folds I just call.

Pot ~650
River is Ad sb leads for $200
Hero??

Also interested in flop/turn feedback

15 September 2024 at 03:23 PM
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21 Replies


Earlier posts are available on our legacy forum HERE

Stacks? Please put pot size on each street -- read the posting sticky.

Vs. unknowns, I probably fold to the raise on the flop. As played, not much you can do but call down.


You seem well named. Stack sizes?

Generally I would raise flop the first time. AP, I'm fine with the overcall.

Turn, you hit what you called more for, why not raise? Also, I generally always raise same bet/down bet OTT, and having a real hand helps balance that. Finally, a lot of his range has FH outs, so we want to charge those.

Not going to comment OTR, as I saw your last action. That's part of results and tends to bias advice, so I edited it out. Please don't reveal until discussion dies down, or at least 24 hours.


Garick, do you gii on turn (assuming 100bb)?

I do like the idea of raising fish on flop, but I don't want to lose him and I don't mind bringing SB along. If you raise and SB re-raises, then what?


OTF, if I semi-bluff and SB re-raises, I put him on a range heavily dominated by sets. Against a set, we have about 34% equity. It would be really hard for stacks to be such that we won't get the right price to continue. Whether we GII now depends on stacks, but generally yes.

I would also never consider folding to the SB raise OTT as played. We are only being asked to pay 22% of the pot, which is in shouting distance of our expressed odds to just draw one card, and given the action we've already seen, I am confident we have the IOs to make up the small gap. ETA, actually, we're getting expressed odds. I was still thinking about equity against a set, but there is no way for us to both hit OTT, so we have all of our outs clean to the turn, so 32% chance of hitting. Though if anyone calls after we hit, they have redraw outs, of course.

AP to turn, assuming 100BB effective, our remaining stack after calling the donk is about 250, and the pot is $650 by then, so yeah, we'd definitely be shoving.


I guess SB just has to be really bad not to have a flush here -- especially on river. Hero's hand looks just like a flush.

Will be interesting to see how deep we are. Any description of SB? How does H come across?


Ranging the SB to primarily sets seems way too tight. He could easily have 88/99/TT/JJ (although Hero blocks 99/TT) in addition to numerous AcXc and even possibly some double Bdwy clubs.


To be clear, here, I am not ranging SB on only sets. I'm saying that if we had raised flop and SB re-raised I would put him primarily on sets, in answer to Javanewt's question.

AP, I could see everything you've included, as well as 67s.


I had assumed you were referring to the range after the c/r.


by Always Fondling

I had assumed you were referring to the range after the c/r.

Nope. Was answering the question

I do like the idea of raising fish on flop, but I don't want to lose him and I don't mind bringing SB along. If you raise and SB re-raises, then what?


$2,300 eff stacks. Sorry guys I haven't posted on here in years!


Wow, that's deep! Match the big stack game?

This deep, I would probably raise/fold turn for about 1/2 pot, but calling down starts to sound much better this deep. Especially if game is aggro enough that raising turn might open us to being bluffed by the NF blocker.

Oh, and welcome back.


by Garick

OTF, if I semi-bluff and SB re-raises, I put him on a range heavily dominated by sets. Against a set, we have about 34% equity. It would be really hard for stacks to be such that we won't get the right price to continue. Whether we GII now depends on stacks, but generally yes.

So you want to get it in on the flop with 34% equity?

100bb deep after a donk & check raise we can fold, that deep we try to see a turn.


by Garick

Wow, that's deep! Match the big stack game?

This deep, I would probably raise/fold turn for about 1/2 pot, but calling down starts to sound much better this deep. Especially if game is aggro enough that raising turn might open us to being bluffed by the NF blocker.

Oh, and welcome back.

Thanks. No, it's not match the stack. When I got there the sb had his stack I don't know anything else about it and I bought in for max $1500 and won a few pots before.


Villian had a set of sixes.


I think this is always a raise OTR. I would go to 800.


Fold to the x/r, AP call. You're going to get gutted by flush over flush a lot here.


This deep I stick with the call down line.


by boulgakov

So you want to get it in on the flop with 34% equity?

100bb deep after a donk & check raise we can fold, that deep we try to see a turn.

Reading comprehension. For the Nth time, that was my answer to "what would you do if you had raised flop, and then SB reraises?" If that had happened, then now, I would not want to GII with 34% equity, but it would be +EV if stacks were short enough.


Grunch:

Flop looks fine to me. Never raising the donk in this spot, never folding to that weak-ish looking x/r from the SB. Just an easy call.

That turn bet sizing from SB is fishy AF. We block the pure nuts, and I'm not buying that he x/r's a flush draw on the flop, then barrels turn for [checks notes] - less than 1/4 pot, and less than his flop x/r size.

Not sure if we should raise turn, but...I'm usually raising turn. I seem to always get punished when I slow-play thick value. Don't need to go huge. Probably make it $350, give or take.

As played, the river is a must-raise. I mean, that ace is such a beautiful card for us to rep, and he'll be hard pressed to fold 2P+ here. My standard sizing would be something like 4x, but here, I might go for more value, and make it $900, maybe even $1k.

MAYBE I fold if he 3B's, but, probably not. I don't think I can get away from our exact hand, the way this was played. If he has a better flush, or a straight flush, nice hand, good game.

ETA - just read the rest of the thread and the reveal. I'm giving V all the sets and top 2 when he x/r's flop, and not very many bluffs that aren't combo-draws, which we partially block with the 9c in our hand. If he's got the cojones to x/r flop, with a small size, with 8c4c, or 4c3c, or just a naked flush draw, multi-way, he deserves our money. But that turn bet sizing looks an AWFUL lot like a hand that just got seriously downgraded, and doesn't want to check and face a big bet on an ugly turn card.

PS - Yes, you're a nit, for not raising turn, and a super-nit if you didn't raise river. Sorry, OP, I just calls 'em like I sees 'em.


by Garick

You seem well named. Stack sizes?Generally I would raise flop the first time. AP, I'm fine with the overcall.Turn, you hit what you called more for, why not raise? Also, I generally always raise same bet/down bet OTT, and having a real hand helps balance that. Finally, a lot of his range has FH outs, so we want to charge those.Not going to comment OTR, as I saw your last ac

Sorry, didn't notice this before. Won't happen again.


Pre I prefer to iso to $25 in position. Definitely don't go $20 if your normal raise size is $20 without a limper, but if your normal raise size is $15, then it's probably fine.

Flop is fine. You could also raise the donk bets.

Turn I think calling or raising are fine.

River we need to raise. I think I would raise to about $800 and I would just fold if he jams. There are plenty of worse hands you get value from. People don't like to fold sets, which is the most likely hand they have imo given the flop raise, cold calling from SB.

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