MGM Curtailing Comps For Advantage Slot Players

****ing vultures, I'm fine with the casino cutting down comps on them if the casino actually spots these people properly.

"we appreciate your understanding"

LOL

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Some slots accumulate games that don't trigger unless certain criteria is met. Others build a progressive $ meter that must hit by some dollar amount. There are other types of machines. I know a few players that can earn 50k+ per year doing this. The advantage players fight and are often rude to regular players . It's bad for business.

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I'm surprised MGM has ANY advantage slots, unless they're talking about outside of Vegas.

Any casino which has the progressives and esp. the must hit by progressive slots can have advantaged players.

Theoretically, any progressive machine could be in an advantaged state. But the information to calculate or know this is not generally available. But it is possible to estimate.

A related example, there is a bank of 5 (might be 4) progressive, $0.25, 9/6 JoB video poker machines in AC. When the progressive gets to a certain $ amount, which can be calculated from the pay table (and there are online tools to quickly do this), the machine becomes +EV to play. Ofc since it is only a $0.25 VP machine and the progressive will "only" be about $1400, unless things go really weird which is statistically possible, you can't make a living off those machines.

But with the progressive, must hit by slots, with the higher jackpots, you can play EV+ slots. Even if you are not truly EV+, definitely can reduce house advantage AND if you are aggressive at doing this, it will likely upset the common degens that the casino wishes to encourage. Plus even if you are slightly EV- on the machine, the value of various comps (rooms, meals, shows, other bonuses) awarded based on play can shift you to slightly EV+ overall.

How are they tracking this? Is it just floor employees watching the machines to see who's being aggressive on them?

I'm amazed it took this long especially considering how paranoid Vegas casinos are with regards to card counting at blackjack. They'll kick out 20 losing counters for every one who can beat then and pat themselves on the back for it in the process.

With the technology we have it shouldn't be hard to tell who only plays machines when they're +ev and to cut their comps accordingly.

Additionally from what i understand in vegas especially, AP slot teams are really aggressive in trying to obtain and hold machines so it's really bad business to be rewarding their play.

I would imagine that the casino can see/track which SPECIFIC machines the advantage players are playing.

They then have a list of "advantage play" machines. If somebody plays these exclusively OR too much, they get booted.

I would also imagine that the "bonus multiplier" advantage players will hop from machine to machine every minute or two. They ONLY play the play with the multipliers (maybe 1 more?), so somebody jumping from machine to machine and only "spinning" it once or twice would be easy to spot.

I know a guy in Detroit that does this. He has list/route of the casinos and where the machines are located. He also has them "clocked" so he knows approximately what the progressive has to be at, to be +EV play.

What he usually does is run the route late at night, like starting around 1 AM. He does that as people are drunk/not paying attention and a lot of people are starting to leave.

I've actually seen him "force" a machine to pay out a couple of times. He does make money....but to me it seems like a hard way to make an easy living!

I'm sure they have a very extensive data warehouse (when it's not being held for ransom) and player profile ID since you'd need to have your players card in to get comps / points.

LOL!

They know exactly which machines you play, how much cash and how much FP used, and probably the status of the machine relative to EV. But regardless, they know only these XX machines are really going to have EV+ periods, and if those are the only machines you play, they can reach a conclusion. Even if they are wrong, it is their perogative.

Ok, I see. I know they can track players cards, I just thought the offensive active was them being aggressive to other customers about playing on these machines, not actually putting money into them and playing it.

this is actually

1) a lot easier for casinos to accurately track than card counting
2) worse for them than card counting.

If a counter plays with an edge the casino loses to them. But they aren't taking money from regular gamblers.
The AP slot not only beats the casino, they're taking jackpots that would have otherwise been one by normal gamblers who are just gonna dump it back to the casino anyway.

They are just trying to scare off APs imo, it has got out of hand in Vegas, players standing behind players, waiting for hours and fighting over machines as people leave them.

Even following a players card most AP players will card pull, meaning they take the card out right before the bonus/progressives hit to show their account is losing.

A few casinos have banned players before like resorts world for checking machines, specifically in the high limit area, maybe that will happen more often at mgm now

How so? My account for Caesar’s sure shows I won less money doing it. Especially on the must hit progressive games

I assume he's referring to the fact that once a spin is initiated, pulling the card will not prevent the system from recording the outcome of a spin. Usually you'll see the panel flash something like "Game in Progress".

Prior to that, pulling players cards used to be really big for video poker players. You could pull the card prior to hitting "Draw" on your big draws and pat hands, and show hours of losses with minimal gains.

They definitely make the experience worse for the average slot player: With Advantage Players swooping in and playing off every machine left in a good state, it nearly guarantees that regular players sitting down at AP machines will have worse sessions.

Ya I was not referring to taking the card out after spinning, there are specific machines that it is very easy to take your card out before spinning because the bonus is near, like regal riches for example, you are chasing green which hits at 100 you just take your card out if your at 99 or something before it goes off and continue to play without your card until it hits.

ah makes sense.

I am guessing I have already been lumped into this group. I had barely played at MGM properties in the past year, but starting around August I started playing a handful of AP machines at various MGM properties on the strip. Enough to go from zero to Pearl. One handpay in there.

So far I've received zero offers and zero freeplay.

Last year I put in modest play on one day for an hour before a hockey game, and got a few weeks of $5 freeplay.

Right now I can't tell if it's too soon to expect any offers or if they have put me in the No Offers group.

To be honest I never look at slots when I pass by, except in the Orleans for some reason.

I can't imagine any modern casino does not track every pull. Which player club number pulled it, the time of day, how much money they risked, and the result of the pull, among other pieces of data.

Okay, I know I'm going to regret asking this, but is there any difference as to which types of slots are better to play?

Video poker has been very cruel to me lately.