British Politics
Been on holiday for a few weeks, surprised to find no general discussion of British politics so though I'd kick one off.
Tory leadership contest is quickly turning into farce. Trump has backed Boris, which should be reason enough for anyone with half a brain to exclude him.
Of the other candidates Rory Stewart looks the best of the outsiders. Surprised to see Cleverly and Javid not further up the betting, but not sure the Tory membership are ready for a brown PM.
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/bri...
Regarding the LD leadership contest, Jo Swinson is miles ahead of any other candidate (and indeed any of the Tory lot). Should be a shoe in.
Finally, it's Groundhog Day in Labour - the more serious the anti-Semitism claims get, the more Corbyn's cronies write their own obituary by blaming it on outlandish conspiracy theories - this week, it's apparently the Jewish Embassy's fault...
I can't say i'm suprised in general but the sheer extent of it all is looking astonishing. And that it's only just beginning to be properly revealed!
It's nonsense that "there's no money". 860Bn of the "national debt" is money owned by the government to itself.
Ask yourself what would happen if money was suddenly needed to fund another war.
There's always money when the stock market or pound need propping up, or a war is to be fought, but never when investment in the infrastructure or skills is needed.
If there was a need of money akin to WW2 there would be widespread rationing in the economy of "luxuries" (ie everything not indispensable to survive) for many years even after the war itself to avoid absurd inflation.
There would absolutely not be enough money in the real sense around to pay for a WW2 event and keep living standards as they are, not by a large margin, in the UK or Italy or France and so on.
Not sure what you mean about money for the stock market or the pound.
If you dislike thinking money think real stuff. There aren't millions of capable unemployed people to activate to make more stuff.
Everytime you want more of something you have to give up something else (and wait for the people and capital employed in something to be switched to the stuff you want more of, if they can, which isnt always obvious), as a society, unless you have slack (unused employment/real capital).
Kenyesian buy yourself out of it, using house building as a key driver. Even if it doesn't entirely work out, more houses.
Keynesian bootstrapping is a model that applies to SLACK. Keynes insight was about the fact that if things are dire *and a lot of people and real capital are not utilized* you can save the day by using state cash to get them in motion and you get more stuff done so the intervention itself doesn't even necessarily cost anything in the middle-long term.
It's not applicable unless you have the slack. The empty factory floors, the unplowed fields, the empty ships, and the capable people unemployed to make something out of that capital.
Did you even try to read a Keynesian model once? Or Keynes own words?
Labour government ministers could be referred to police for potential complicity in war crimes in Gaza, the head of a Palestinian rights group said.
Tayab Ali is chairman of the International Centre of Justice for Palestinians (ICJP), an independent organisation of lawyers, politicians and academics who aim to protect the rights of Palestinians through the law.
Ali, who is also head of international law at London law firm Bindmans LLP, told a fringe event at the Labour Party conference that he will add Labour ministers to a list the organisation has already sent to Scotland Yard in relation to arming Israel.
Earlier this year the ICJP handed evidence to Scotland Yard in relation to alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in Gaza under applicable UK legislation.
Evidence was provided in relation to senior UK politicians, who have remained anonymous, but Ali said the names of five Conservative former ministers had been supplied.
Labour MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner attended the fringe event and asked the panel about “the ramifications of complicity by the UK Government”.
Ali said their case against the previous government had been based on article 25 of the Rome statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) which outlines individual criminal responsibility for war crimes.
He said: “What’s really important about that? Because when you talk about the ICC, it sounds like a foreign institution, but the Rome statute is incorporated in British law, so it makes it a crime here in the UK to be complicit in the same way.
“And actually even further, because in the UK, in domestic law, we have not just complicity in – and I’ll read out the pertinent words – facilitating the commission of a crime, aids, abets or otherwise assists in its commission or its attempted commission, including providing the means for its commission.
“Really important keywords there, but also in domestic legislation, is the offence of conspiracy.”
Ali added: “If a person is about to do a bank robbery, they come to me and I think they’re a bank robber, and they ask me to supply them with a weapon, a shotgun for example, I am conspiring with that person to commit that bank robbery. I am complicit in that.
“I see the same framework for supplying parts for F-35s. At the moment ICJP is looking very carefully at the Labour Party in Government.
“If we find sufficient evidence that Labour Party Government ministers have been complicit in war crimes then we will add to our complaints already with Scotland Yard.
lol
It's most likely a large part of the reson why some arms sales to israel have been stopped.
Loads of people dying isn't so funny when they might end up in the dock
mm that will def happen
it already did happen
when is the trial?
is it before or after the war crimes tribunal of Tony Bliar, which im sure will also happen any day now?
UK suspends around 30 arms export licences to Israel for use in Gaza over International Humanitarian Law concerns
labour pandering to their anti (((zionist))) base is old news, im more interested in the upcoming war crimes trial
who will be the chief prosecutor. can i suggest jeremy corbyn?
ok
The government suspending some arms contracts happened, but British ministers ending up 'in the dock' won't happen.
Probably not because they take great care to comply with the law when they are at personal risk e.g like suspending arms sales
Boids may argue that it's all jusyt pandering to the base but nothing like personal risk to focus their minds into actually doing soemthing. It's amzing what they can do when it's their own skin
this odd fantasy of centrist labour politicians going on trial for war crimes has been doing the rounds for decades and needs to stop
It was fantasy with blair. A much hoped for fantasy but never likely
the international legal rulings make it different this time. Most likely why they are trying to behave.
Probably not because they take great care to comply with the law when they are at personal risk e.g like suspending arms sales
Boids may argue that it's all jusyt pandering to the base but nothing like personal risk to focus their minds into actually doing soemthing. It's amzing what they can do when it's their own skin
I don't think it's unusual for ministers to take legal advice to protect HMG's position. The Cabinet rule of collective responsibility means that individual ministers would only incur personal liability in exceptional circumstances, which are unlikely to obtain here. And HMG can resile from the Rome Statute at any time if they decide that a parti-pris Hague prosecutor is playing silly-buggers. Or they could perhaps initiate a counter-action against the prosecutor as a war criminal for assisting certain avowedly genocidal terrorist organisations. It's not in the ICC's interests to go there, really.
If there was a need of money akin to WW2 there would be widespread rationing in the economy of "luxuries" (ie everything not indispensable to survive) for many years even after the war itself to avoid absurd inflation.
There would absolutely not be enough money in the real sense around to pay for a WW2 event and keep living standards as they are, not by a large margin, in the UK or Italy or France and so on.
Not sure what you mean about money for the stock market or the pound.
If you dislike thinki
You don't appear to have heard of the money the UK is sending for wars, or QE, or in fact the Bank of England.
I don't think it's unusual for ministers to take legal advice to protect HMG's position. The Cabinet rule of collective responsibility means that individual ministers would only incur personal liability in exceptional circumstances, which are unlikely to obtain here. And HMG can resile from the Rome Statute at any time if they decide that a parti-pris Hague prosecutor is playing silly-buggers. Or they could perhaps initiate a counter-action against the prosecutor as a war criminal for assisting
The threat to them is mostly much further down the line.
Highly unlikely they get prosecuted while still in power
Also it could well be they probably wouldn't be prosecuted. That's still leaves enough risk to scare the shite of them.
labour pandering to their anti (((zionist))) base is old news, im more interested in the upcoming war crimes trial
who will be the chief prosecutor. can i suggest jeremy corbyn?
How much more money do you think the UK should commit to supporting your favourite genocidal terrorist rogue state?
as much as is necessary to prevent iran and its puppets from achieving their second holocaust of the jews
Everyone knows the best way to achieve peace with your neighbours is by terrorising and methodically exterminating their friends child by child, baby by baby.
israelis dont seem to be willing to go into the ovens, so i think peace will require iran & co to give up their dreams
So that justifies genociding the Palestinians? Righty ho. Always good to hear.
can confirm NO GENOCIDE!
i would suggest taking this to the israel thread but your mod keeps binning my well thought out posts, so for more quality engagement on the matter i'll see you in the SE politics thread
