MGM Curtailing Comps For Advantage Slot Players

Maybe the lesson here is, blabbing about plays all over the internet leads to their demise.

Been doing for many years. Almost all of this info is on your win/loss. What isn't there, they still have.

Not a slot player (that is the wife department). All I can really share is that some machines are high variance and others lower. I suspect the ones that can be situationally EV+ or close to it are higher variance.

From watching the wife, the bigger the jackpot or even just wins, the greater the variance.

I'm sure there will be a little bit of collateral damage to this new policy. Like, some slot players who play mostly a small number of games that CAN BE advantage machines, except they play them no matter what the conditions are.

After all, somebody has to be playing them under bad conditions for them to end up in a favorable state.

They could easily end up getting swept into the category of "Advantage Player" if they're only playing a handful of AP games.

I’ve still never really understood how “advantage” slot players can -know- when a slot machine is +EV. Unlike video poker, the exact EV of a slot machine is in not knowable to the players, unless they have inside info from a casino employee. And even if you know the overall EV, how do you know how much of that comes from the particular bonus round you are chasing?

Suppose you come across a slot with a must hit by jackpot at $500. The counter on the slot is at $499. You figure that every dollar played thru the slot moves the counter up .1cent. The max you'll put into that slot is $100. There are other versions of AP play.

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I don't think its an exact science, and that's okay. Just like you can sit down at a poker table and not know if it's +EV to be in the game.

At what point do machines become +EV? Tough to say. At what point is your opponent's play sufficiently bad enough to overcome rake+tips?

But some spots are just clearly better than others.

It's complicated by the fact that many plays that are probably +EV can still brick and leave you way in the negative. But hey, at the poker table you can ship it in as a clear favorite and still get stacked.

If the instagram video is accurate, this not likely to be a problem. Or a very small one.
. AP only play these machines but
. They only play them when they are EV+ or close to this and
. Thus their theo loss is too small or even a win

Some players may focus on these machines but if so they will be playing them both during good and bad periods. If true, they will have a normal theo.

If MGM is truly running both tests, normal players should be fine.

This is why the must hit by machines can easily be seen. TAB lays it out fine. There are other machine that might be EV+ but you can’t KNOW it. Some simply are the JP is big enough that statistically it should be profitable. But you need to know the odds for any single spin to hit to calculate this.

Honestly I'd be surprised if the machine is reporting the theo of every single spin given that it's constantly changing on AP machines, but I suppose it's possible.

I had assumed they were just reporting based on the overall theo of the machine for that given bet size. That is to say, what the machine hold is set at.

But I admit I do not know.

I see this happen in numerous casinos in Vegas (probably not talked about here because the demographic of the group), that 9/6 JoB machine bank, when the number gets to a certain amount it will be full, and people fighting over machines, then once it hits for 1.xk, they all walk away and wait a week or so.

have been playing a lot of ap machines the last 3 years . have had endless room comps ,have yet to see my offers go down. I did notice their Algo only lets me book 5 weekends at a time. (a couple times I did 6 months at a time ) ,so waiting for the hammer to drop i guess.

Huh?!?!? Never said machine was reporting anything. MGM knows the hold of the machines. They know how much the player lost or won. So they compare what should happen over time vs what did happen.

Yes as JP is increasing the machine hold is improving. But this is exactly what they are looking for. If AP only plays when machine is ev+, he won’t lose as much as he should based on the set hold.

They put out the list of machines they are canceling comps for APs, just play the ones on there. For your purposes all the ones that are 1 of X spinners like scarabs (1/10) or Golden Egypt Grand (1/x) are what you want because they are lower volatility than like Buffalo ascension, plus they are usually easier to find and play AP spots. There’s also a lot of scarab clones to look for.

I didn’t realize how dumb and greedy the AP campers are, they got better than they deserve. The better method is never use a card on gimme plays (slows you down and marks you) and put your card in on marginal or long chase plays. Sometimes you’ll find a play on a machine like scarabs and it’s guaranteed to win at least $20-100, I don’t want comps when I already got free money, I want comps when I end up losing on a long Wolf Run or Buffalo Diamond chase.

the problem is that these Chinese campers (for the most part) are very profitable with this style.

as someone who plays poker and does slots for a living I witness it first hand.

I find it horrible to camp for longer than 5 minutes but they rewarded with huge scores on ascension to just camp them all day ..

I have dozens of pictures of aps hitting these machines big

Im no expert on this stuff but it took MGM many years to crack down on this stuff so if people were getting tons of free play free rooms etc over the years it was probably worth it.

Definitely worth it. All mgm and other casinos were looking at until now was the coin in

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Yes it's mostly Chinese families. Most other AP are individuals, but if they could do this they would also. They couldn't get together and agree to divvy up the profits

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I have no idea how to play a slot unless it has reels. Probably no more complex than put money in, pull the handle?

One of my friends is a slot AP, and has yet to receive this notice, but yeah, it was probably inevitable that Chinese teams would ruin it, as they eventually do to most any AP opportunity in this town

To be fair it’s not just Vegas, I travelled the USA this year doing AP slots and poker and it was pretty much every city I visited had Chinese teams camping ascension non stop.

There is over 150 AP Machines that I know of and probably more I don’t know, I doubt mgm is going to ban every single ap machine from comps . Probably just the main ones everyone hunts, regal riches, ascension, hex, etc.

You hit the nail on the head. The biggest gripe is unlike normal slot players who are going to dump the jackpot/bonus winnings back into the machine the slot hustlers are taking the money out of the casino.

I saw one of these teams on my last trip to Aria in August, was pretty interesting. After dinner and drinks my cousin and I like to hang out at the patisserie and people watch everyone coming and going to and from the casino/club. There were 2 individuals with giant noise cancelling headphones that would walk by the slots right in front of us, slam a button as fast as they could for a a minute or two, and then leave. They would return every 10 mins or so, and hover over different machines that tourists were using, and click through all the pay tables on other machines. It was interesting to see in person, as I don't really pay attention to slots normally but have heard of advantage players, this was my first time to see it in person. I feel like if I was a slot player and felt someone hovering over me i'd play as slowly as possible just to mess with them, haha.

I hit cash out. The slot makes a change sound. Then I put the ticket back in.

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