SC OOP vs LAG crusher
1/3 NLHE 9 handed
Late on weekday night but jackpots are getting up there and game is loose drinking and happy. Everyone is either buying in for the max or sitting deep, lots of straddling.
V - One of the best players in the room. Plays WSOP. Takes his game seriously and grinds 1/3. Not sure how much he makes at 1/3. Plays as big as 25/50. My take on him is that he'll always take the higher variance but more profitable line, but he'll over value hands and refuse to fold say AK on a K-7-7 vs some LP who always has a 7X. He 3-bets most of the time pre. He has just rebought and has 475$.
---
V straddles BTN to 6, SB and BB LPs limp, H sees 9♥ 8♥ in LJ and makes it 30, only V calls. HU OOP.
Flop 60 - K♥ T♦ 6♥
H checks, V bets 45, Hero?
This is a spot to make a sad fold pre-flop. I'm sure I've opened worse hands in worse positions though, so I don't blame you for the raise here.
I like the flop check. I would check raise to something like $175 and jam a lot of turns. I don't think check/call is bad though.
I fold preflop (especially with this guy in the straddle and in position). I think over limping is better than raising here. Kinda surprising we didn't get 3bet / his call didn't have us go 4ways. But even HU OOP to this guy with 9 high (the least expected result to our raise) isn't a fantastic spot, imo.
SPR is 7. At smaller SPRs I'd go for a check/jam. At this SPR I guess we could just barrel for stacks (or at least the risk of that on flop/turn)? Although as played (checking) a check/raise to $150 would setup a ~PSB shove for the turn putting on massive pressure while always having decent equity.
GcluelessNLnoobG
lol another world beater regularly grinding 1/3
i think his range is going to be wide enough, and you're going to be tight enough, that you want to have a cbetting range here and i think this mostly fits into it pretty well. the check range thing in srp applies less as u get shallower, and also this guy's range is probably going to look much closer to a bb defend range vs sb open than a btn defend vs a raise if i had to guess (we cbet quite a bit bvb)
i think pre is probably mediocre without very specific reads on the blinds, and this guy might just defend too much where it ends up not great in general.
1/3 NLHE 9 handed
Late on weekday night but jackpots are getting up there and game is loose drinking and happy. Everyone is either buying in for the max or sitting deep, lots of straddling.
V - One of the best players in the room. Plays WSOP. Takes his game seriously and grinds 1/3. Not sure how much he makes at 1/3. Plays as big as 25/50. My take on him is that he'll always take the higher variance but more profitable line, but he'll over value hands and refuse to fold say AK on a K-7-7 vs some L
Anyone with money can play the WSOP. There's lots of older people who just play tournament poker and the money isn't huge to them. That someone plays it doesn't mean anything. It's not a PGA Tour event where you have to get invited.
If he doesn't have a flush draw, you're over 50% with clean outs. You have plenty of pot odds to call. If he overvalues or overplays hands, you there's nothing wrong with jamming here especially if its with people you play a lot of there's action at the table. "I'll jam with just a draw" pays off when you have a set or something similar.
Pre is marginal. I think you can make a case for all 3 options though.
As played. Raise 150. Jam Turn.
Pre is marginal. I think you can make a case for all 3 options though.
As played. Raise 150. Jam Turn.
all ‘dis
can’t win with SC’s on equity alone and you have no showdown value but a strong 12-out draw twice. this only works if he doesn’t think you’re FOS so only you know your perceived image.
if he’s never seen you check value HU OOP however this is not going to work. good news is if he calls flop and turn and you bink, you can do the same thing next time with fat value.
Pre looks fine. Flop check is fine. Just call the bet.
I'm always very conscious of who's otb when I'm deciding what to do pre, and I don't really like our options having the best player in the room on it vs our hand (limping opens him up to isolating all the limpers, and raising opens him up to 3betting which he does often). I prefer to tighten up in these spots pre especially when he's straddling the button and regularly plays 25/50.
I like king high flops so I would bet 35 otf. If he raises, I'm folding and I would call the flop as played (I prefer to have nut draws if semi bluff jamming in these spots).
There aren't many posts where simply reading the title is enough to find the right answer. This is one of them. Mods could simply delete the entire thread and replace with two words: "fold preflop" and no content would be lost.
Why aren't we just betting 2 thirds on the flop? As played raise.
Pre flop is fine. Don't call pre FFS.
Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk
Hypothetical: H x/raises to 125, V 3-bet jams for 445 total. Hero? It's 320 to call to win 630, a hair under 2:1.
There aren't many posts where simply reading the title is enough to find the right answer. This is one of them. Mods could simply delete the entire thread and replace with two words: "fold preflop" and no content would be lost.
it sounds like a great burn but how big of an error do u think pre is in terms of $?
I guess I'm missing something basic, because I don't hate the PF raise even with the BTN straddle, although the fact that Banana Boy is so intimidated by the BTN means he may well get outplayed after the flop, especially out of position.
I guess I'm missing something basic, because I don't hate the PF raise even with the BTN straddle, although the fact that Banana Boy is so intimidated by the BTN means he may well get outplayed after the flop, especially out of position.
i mean pre is probably losing when you factor in the limps and how large our raise is and that the straddle is on the button, i doubt we win very often without a flop. esp if you're not randomizing this type of hand i'd imagine its too loose and ends up exploitable but like how big of an error could it possibly be? 1 or 2$? people just have no frame work for evaluating decisions so if opponent remotely has a pulse the advice is entirely avoid them, play straightforward, switch seats, switch tables, etc.
it's kind of why i keep harping on the point that if you see this guy playing > 10 hours of 1/3 there's just no way he is this ultra elite high stakes regular because that isn't what people that are good at poker and have money do. he's probably a decent reg, and much better than the low stakes mafia on this forum, but he doesn't have magical powers. he is just playing poker. if he's reasonable, he's literally the easiest person to evaluate your play against - run the hand through a solver. but people would rather make thousands of posts on here than do that
Pretty big when you look at it with the context that (i) a bigger stakes player probably has a 90% defend rate of his BTN straddle with no callers in between, and (ii) a much higher squeeze % when HJ or CO call relative to 1/3 population tendencies so we’re torching $30 at a healthy clip.
We’re just building a pot OOP with 9-hi vs. a “crusher” and we’re not even deep - a mere 80 BB’s with the straddle on. OP could take the same line with AK and double up vs. a lot of BTN’s range.
It’s fun to call this off and bink but it doesn’t mean the hand wasn’t a self-inflicted negative Sklansky bucks suicide.
Pretty big when you look at it with the context that (i) a 25/50 player probably has a 90% defend rate of his BTN straddle with no callers in between, and (ii) a much higher squeeze % when HJ or CO call relative to 1/3 population tendencies so we’re torching $30 at a healthy clip.
We’re just building a pot OOP with 9-hi vs. a “crusher” and we’re not even deep - a mere 80 BB’s with the straddle on. OP could take the same line with AK and double up vs. a lot of B
if he defends 90% of his hands pre here, he is going to get annihilated. its a 5x vs maybe 20% of hands
there's literally no way you lose 30$ on a 30$ open. i'm telling you most preflop rfi decisions at equilibrium are like at absolute worst 1/4 of a bb error. can argue i guess it'll be more here bc the raise is larger but i think that's compensated by the $ in the pot
like i dont get it. do you think he's an actual wizard that can play every hand and win all of them? at some point, on some street he needs to fold to aggression simply bc he has nothing 85% of the time.
if he defends 90% of his hands pre here, he is going to get annihilated. its a 5x vs maybe 20% of hands
there's literally no way you lose 30$ on a 30$ open. i'm telling you most preflop rfi decisions at equilibrium are like at absolute worst 1/4 of a bb error
This is irrelevant to whether we should open 9-hi or not. There is no longterm equilibrium being reached over a large sample size. It’s a larger stakes player slumming 1/3 where the money doesn’t matter. He’s not straddling the BTN to fold to a $30 raise.
idk what to tell you. theres no way he is vpiping > 50-60% of the time here pre. and if he is that loose pre, he is going to absolutely die post. imagine shallow bvb sims and sb has 20% of hands instead of 50.
unless you think he gets dealt 15x the made hands (bc he plays 15x the stakes!) i don't see why him playing way too loose pre is bad for you. he has to fold at some point.
again its all whatever. he isn't a high stakes reg. the op description literally says he grinds 1/3 regularly. taking a shot higher at something super soft doesn't make u a hs reg, it means you have access to capital and opportunity. there just aren't any 25/50+ public nl games that go anymore with any kind of regularity anywhere in the us as far as i know
idk what to tell you either. i have no doubt that you know poker theory better than i do. and i have no doubt that i know live poker meta better than you do.
y would u assume that?
idk do you have 10k live hours in loose late night games similar to bananas?
like i’m not trying to argue with you over whether we can eek out a fraction of a BB in profit when playing the hand perfectly per some solver. i just think having situational awareness in live poker is equally if not more important than having infallible robotic fundamentals.
we’re OOP to a superior player. we’re not deep. we rarely take this down preflop. we have two players between us and BTN which increase the likelihood of a squeeze if they call. there’s just a lot of negatives working against us in this spot when so many better spots will present themselves in a live low stakes setting. in game would be an annoying sigh fold for me preflop for the reasons listed while encouraging the guy next to me it’s time for us to order another round.
