Facing 5bet preflop with KK

5-bets tend to be very nutted, so folding is an option, especially this deep, but it is obviously villain dependent. If it's some 80 year old who hasn't played a hand in 2 hours, then sure go ahead and fold, but if it's some kid 3 betting and 4 betting frequently, then go ahead and call.

I don't think never folding KK pre is some kinda big leak you need to worry about. I've never folded KK pre fwiw.

The question you should ask yourself is what did you think was calling a 4bet?

Positions? Sizing? I’ve folded KK maybe 15-20 times pre but it was always in slam dunk aces spots. This one if it’s utg vs utg1 I just fold, if it’s blind vs blind against a good player I 6b or call.

nice bink but >200 BB’s you need to have the ability to lay down KK when the action indicates you’re toast, which it did.

for the record, you’re not going to get any useful or actionable advice if you can’t even be bothered to post the actual HH and any other relevant info on villain. all this is is a personal blog post at this point.

I'm sorry. I'm in the CO. Villian is a 20 something man who's decent skill level. Haven't seen him 3bet much or play many large pots. I'm 900 deep and he's 700. Game is 1/2 with a $5 straddle. I raise it up to 25. He pops it up 100 on the button. I 4bet to 250 and he 5bets all in. Should have trusted myself to lay it down I think. I'm getting 2 to 1 to call but that's useless if I'm a 4to1 dog right?

I did and realized I didn't include the straddle for the true effective stack sizes. Thanks for the advice!

Yaaa this is a standard stack off, please include HH next time, this is totally different from what you’ve said in your original post.

Mainly just calling off here unless there is a history of v being extremely tight. Pretty standard.

Now imagine if you were 1.5k deep and he 5bets to 750. Then I might consider laying it down. That really is aces and egregious amount of the time.

This is _very_ general advice and depends a lot on the room IMO ...

Like if most people are buying in for 50-100bb and a guy you haven't seen bluff and you've seen not 3bet QQ pre. has won a few times to be 250bb and now wants to put it all in vs. your KK. Life sucks, folding is probably best... but do you _need_ to be able to make that fold everytime to be a winner? Meh.

On the other hand there's a few rooms I play in now where it's pretty common for randoms to buyin for 200-250bb, and some players think AK is always the nuts (dear 20bb ESPN shows, the cash game world kind of thanks you). Also seen players be kind of loose/passive/normal and then just pile 200bb in pre. with 99/TT "because I knew you had AK" or "everytime I opened a good hand I lost" or whatever.

Would more recommend not 4betting KK if you are def. folding to more action (and robots will lean heavily on just 3/4/etc. betting AA/AXs when very deep).

Also straddles will mostly change the decision, like here, without amazing reads that V doesn't understand what straddles mean.

A couple of bet-sizing questions to the crowd. The 5x open and 4x 3! by the button are both a tad large, right? At 700 effective?

Conversely, the 4! seems sized to induce, which I think you want with KK OOP and 140 straddles effective, so well done. But then don't fold.

"Should I fold KK pf to an all-in V in their 20s at less than 250bb?", is 99% of the time, "No."

“Have the ability” doesn’t mean you actually have to fold. It just means don’t auto-stack off like a mindless drone on autopilot.

That's usually AA, but not always. Depends on the opponent. I've made a couple light 5B's in the last few years, and I've seen more than a few others.