2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
The DeSantis phenomena was something else. You saw this fairly big movement online that pushed him as an alternative to Trump, pretty much hailing him as "modern conservatism 2.0". Then this spread to the opposite side of the political spectrum, which leaped into action to paint him as the new devil, obviously fearing that he was in fact "modern conservatism 2.0".
Yet when he finally starting taking the stage, it just became clear that way too few people inside those groups had ever bothered to a
I thought it was right wing Trumpers that undid him. Like his 2022 win end margin was genuinely impressive in an otherwise awful year for republicans. Then he tried to get the nomination and Trump won without even trying lol. I do think out of Trump, Desantis Vance, Ron is the only one who genuinely cares about the culture war stuff beyond self interest and exploitability. Which is just plain weird.
Here is the letter from ICE that conveyed that information.
https://x.com/RepTonyGonzales/status/183...
From what I can tell from ICE"s letter, the criminal counts quoted in that tweet are not not the number that entered during the current administration but the total on ICE's "docket", which elsewhere I found is
:
ICE’s national docket refers to illegal foreign nationals who were apprehended by Border Patrol agents who then turn them over to ICE. Despite having a confirmed documented criminal history, ICE released them into the United States.
I thought it was right wing Trumpers that undid him. Like his 2022 win end margin was genuinely impressive in an otherwise awful year for republicans. Then he tried to get the nomination and Trump won without even trying lol. I do think out of Trump, Desantis Vance, Ron is the only one who genuinely cares about the culture war stuff beyond self interest and exploitability. Which is just plain weird.
RDS management of COVID was one of the best in the world for people with any libertarian leaning, I know many of you hate freedom deeply so you can't even comprehend that but in 2022 he won with that margin because the people of Florida rewarded someone who acted heroically pro freedom when almost anyone else worldwide went full fascist.
and why did RDS achieve that exceptional result? by listening to intellectual dark web right-wing people.
and THEY actually care about the culture war deeply, so RDS picked it from them. from the Rufos and whatnot
I thought it was right wing Trumpers that undid him. Like his 2022 win end margin was genuinely impressive in an otherwise awful year for republicans. Then he tried to get the nomination and Trump won without even trying lol. I do think out of Trump, Desantis Vance, Ron is the only one who genuinely cares about the culture war stuff beyond self interest and exploitability. Which is just plain weird.
it was donors. big names dropped him after he fought Disney. the rest followed
RDS management of COVID was one of the best in the world for people with any libertarian leaning, I know many of you hate freedom deeply so you can't even comprehend that but in 2022 he won with that margin because the people of Florida rewarded someone who acted heroically pro freedom when almost anyone else worldwide went full fascist.
and why did RDS achieve that exceptional result? by listening to intellectual dark web right-wing people.
and THEY actually care about the culture war deeply, so
Agreed, unless of course one uses COVID deaths per capita as the measurement of how well COVID was handled:
A tracker from The New York Times, last updated on March 23, 2023, shows that Florida recorded 35,119 COVID cases per capita, compared to California's 30,798 cases per capita. Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) from August 1, 2020, through November 18, 2023, shows that Florida recorded 582,192 hospitalizations and California saw 629,171 hospitalizations. California's population exceeds Florida's by 16.78 million, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.
The death rate was also higher in Florida, where 34,557 people died from the virus in 2021, data from the CDC shows. The death rate in Florida was 111.7 deaths per 100,000, compared to the 99.9 deaths per 100,000 recorded in California. More than 44,500 people died from the virus in California in 2021. Florida's death rate surpassed California's throughout the pandemic, with the figures being most pronounced in 2021, when residents in the Sunshine State were more than 1.6 times likely to die from COVID-19 than those in the Golden State.
COVID deaths don't depend on the leader as everyone with any brain admits by now, the best you can do is not to assassinate the economy and social life while COVID does it's things which you can't in any way or form affect within democratic norms.
btw even under YOUR METRIC Florida did better than California because you ****ing have to correct for median age (and most of all, % of over70 as a total of the population) as every single person who ever discussed the topic knows and it's obscene not to do so when discussing one of the oldest states in the union vs a younger than average one.
Florida needs more than double Californian deaths to break even because people retire there in droves jfc how horribly bad faithed can you be in this topic?
truly disgusting.
so aside from the fact that Florida had less age adjusted deaths than California, even if it had the same or a tad more than would have been an epical unprecedented success given it achieved that with exceptionally fewer freedom limitations, for ANYONE who cares even a little about freedom (and the economy, check unemployment in both states during COVID).
oh and ofc if people choose not to vaccinate that's their choice, not the governor choice.
glad i'm vax'd against lil'mussolini's bullshit
COVID deaths don't depend on the leader as everyone with any brain admits by now, the best you can do is not to assassinate the economy and social life while COVID does it's things which you can't in any way or form affect within democratic norms.
btw even under YOUR METRIC Florida did better than California because you ****ing have to correct for median age (and most of all, % of over70 as a total of the population) as every single person who ever discussed the topic knows and it's obscene not t
The fact Florida had a higher median age was reason for them to be more protective of its population with their COVID policy, not less, compared to other states, so what you think is an argument that supports your position is actually more proof of RDS's mishandling of the pandemic.
Far less real political experience than Palin, actually. Of course, that's not a problem for Republicans, who gripe about qualifications when a black person runs for president but will happily vote for reality TV stars or professional wrestlers or complete lightweights like Vance/Palin.
The fact Florida had a higher median age was reason for them to be more protective of its population with their COVID policy, not less, compared to other states, so what you think is an argument that supports your position is actually more proof of RDS's mishandling of the pandemic.
man you are a leftist who hates freedom, you are expected to disagree, you don't matter as I don't, Florida voters matter and they overwhelmingly agreed with RDS about this.
can't talk here about COVID any longer as I got warnings in the past about talking COVID stuff outside the COVID thread.
man you are a leftist who hates freedom, you are expected to disagree, you don't matter as I don't, Florida voters matter and they overwhelmingly agreed with RDS about this.
can't talk here about COVID any longer as I got warnings in the past about talking COVID stuff outside the COVID thread.
I said I agree with you - RDS is the man you want if you wanted the freedom to die. But you're right, we shouldn't be talking about COVID in this thread. My bad.
wait is ICE releasing people into this country because they want to help Trump get reelected? Otherwise why would they be doing this? It makes absolutely no sense.
Of course it’s true I’m sure at the time they arrive they do not know their records . I’m sure your not going to CNN or MSNBC report it but sadly we have to be skeptical if it’s true like any story on the big three
man you are a leftist who hates freedom, you are expected to disagree, you don't matter as I don't, Florida voters matter and they overwhelmingly agreed with RDS about this.
can't talk here about COVID any longer as I got warnings in the past about talking COVID stuff outside the COVID thread.
You must be against conscription .
Nothing more anti freedom then that right ?
Even if it’s meant to protect your freedom in the country you live in .
What I mean is total freedom doesn’t exist.
It’s a trade off .
Like covid measures was .
This is gobbledygook
ICE says they remove these individuals from the country by releasing them at the border.
Weirdo Republicans are then saying "SEE?? THESE CRIMINALS ARE WALKING FREE IN OUR COUNTRY", which is contradictory to what ICE is saying is actually happening.
Here is a rule of thumb; if big bombshell news is coming out in the 11th hour, its probably bullshit.
Mike Johnson’s words threaten our democracy.
It is disturbingly clear that the Republican Party is setting the stage
to once again attempt to overturn a lawful American election.
We are at a critical moment in our nation’s history.
Does any reasonable person think that there will ever be another "free, fair and safe" election? I'm pretty sure democracy, insofar as it ever existed, is dead.
What do you mean? It appears that for the most part elections seem reasonably fine.
The more obvious problem is the influence that those in power have over public opinion and their ability to maximize that influence, especially when it comes to using current technologies. This is a problem even if those wielding that power think they're doing good. The less obvious problem is that even though most people think they're making free decisions, they're often guided by principles they can't rationalize or undestand.
The more obvious problem is the influence that those in power have over public opinion and their ability to maximize that influence, especially when it comes to using current technologies. This is a problem even if those wielding that power think they're doing good. The less obvious problem is that even though most people think they're making free decisions, they're often guided by principles they can't rationalize or undestand.
Are you suggesting technology is what makes people dumb to still vote for trump ?
Or they are dumb to begin with by still voting for a guy that has no presidential value at all ?
I’m not sure technology has anything to do with it .
realize this is not directly related to GI's posts which are getting more at subliminal 1984 messaging, but:
i like trevor noah's quote "most conflict in life comes from a misunderstanding of language"
there are two poles with "elections results are the cornerstone of our functioning democracy" and "election was rigged!" i think people make a mistake interpreting this absolute terms, automatically taking either pole depending which they're closer to.
and i feel like when someone takes either side they're either saying "elections are integrous and reflect the will of the people and i like that" versus "there's election fraud/cheating going on"... but neither is provable (esp to the other pole's satisfaction)
those on one end of the pole will take comfort that they're in the former more virtuous camp, but i suspect if they lose this year there will be similar allegations that have been lobbed from the other side. more likely, they'll insert "russia" somewhere in a sentence to imply elections are rigged indirectly by insidious outsiders. not possible that the (near) majority of the country sees things another way. other-ender polers can't point to anything to prove their point. i think the truth is somewhere in between were election fraud is highly likely to have occurred *somewhere*, it's just a question of to what extent... and i haven't seen any good evidence it's to any significant extent.
but there's a boatload of valuable middle ground where either side (especially democrats) could say "we want to ensure the integrity of our elections and are taking these proactive A,B,C measures"
but that's not a viable position in this polarized political environment where you're either all-in on Reality A or B.
I can respond to this, but it depends on exactly what it is that you don't follow. Do I think that votes can be counted without error? Sure—and this is what most people are thinking of when they talk about democracy. Do I think the beliefs of voters are influenced by propaganda? Yes. Do I think that technology makes it easier for those in power to manipulate public opinion and affect how the public votes? Also, yes.
I can respond to this, but it depends on exactly what it is that you don't follow. Do I think that votes can be counted without error? Sure—and this is what most people are thinking of when they talk about democracy. Do I think the beliefs of voters are uninfluenced by propaganda? Yes. Do I think that technology makes it easier for those in power to manipulate public opinion and affect how the public votes? Also, yes.
I don't follow why you think things are worse than any point in the past.
Now you mention technology and I disagree that on net it makes it easier to manipulate public opinion, I think the plurality and cacophony allowed by current technology makes it harder than ever to swing public opinion decisively toward any specific point.
I am not saying they arent trying, I am saying they always tried and it was far easier in the past to do so.
I mean I have a pretty clear picture of how voting worked in rural Italy in the the 50s-60s and I don't see how today can be worse than that.
I can only imagine how it was in early 1800 in the USA, but even a quick glance at Monroe re election in 1820 should suggest things are going far better today for democracy.
For universalists in general it's hard to claim things are worse today than they were when women or poor men couldn't vote.
And I mean in general how can things be worse than when illiterate people were allowed to vote?
I suppose someone could try to use something like the 60s or 70s as "peak democracy" in which case I would ask how the assassination of the democratic leader of the most powerful country in the history of the world (who probably won thanks to the Mafia rigging the vote) squares with that assessment.
Then a bit later a relative is a candidate with good winning chances and get assassinated.
Then a bit later a guy wins with one of the greatest majority in American history only to be taken down by the deep state after he changed the world economy forever by leaving bretton woods.
Did you think manipulation of electoral outcomes was lower in intensity when unions voted as blocks on sale for the highest bidder? Or earlier on when the pope who still controlled minds and hearts enough proclaimed "non expedit"?
Politics is always war, pure violence behind the surface, a struggle to dominate and enslave others for the benefit of your group, and democratic processes don't change that core essence of politics.
They make it a little more bearable than other structures.
Since we managed to control our natural environment enough to be able to provide for food for our families, the fellow man has always been the biggest threat to your well being and survival.
