Bobby's Breakroom - for gaming employee chatter + YTF appreciation. See restrictions in Post #1

The biggest issue was that the fold train happened really fast. I am sure that the three players who folded in succession knew they were going to fold once UTG raised. So once the next player asked his question and the dealer responded, they all insta folded. There wasn't any real chance to stop the action. The next player asked "Raise?", the dealer declared raise, and the next three players folded quickly in a row. Literally only seconds passed.

While the next player was deciding whether to put the money out for a forced raise or leave the casino (he took a long time), I called the floor over and started talking to him. Once we both realized I was talking about my live hand, we both sort of took a half a step away from the table and turned our backs so the others could not hear us speak. I was literally only a couple feet (maybe 2 - 4 feet) away from my chair. I could have leaned/reached it and grabbed it without moving my feet.

I wanted to get him the information in a timely manner while there was a break in the action in case he was willing to change his mind.

It was stupid thinking on my part, but my thought was I had used to play in the casino fairly regularly and I sort of knew the floor. I was (naively???) thinking that he knew me as legit and if I explained I had the absolute nuts and it was in my best interst to see as much money go into the pot as possible, the fact that I was fighting for the next player to not have to put money in the pot it would lend some credibility to his argument and the floor might change his mind.

So when I say we stepped away from the game it was more figurative than literal. Plus there was the delay while the player thought.

100% true. Absolutely no doubt.

Unfortunately it is also human nature to take shortcuts in our wording. I think this should be a lesson to all about making our actions very clear, but human nature is what it is. We all know better, but I also bet that every single poster here who has played long enough could probably point to something in their past where they could have done better in clarifying their actions.

Long story.

The night started with my wife and I going to an 80th birthday party for a man who was a friend of my family. At the party I saw an old friend who I hadn't seen in over a year or two. We used to play poker together a lot. We spent most of the time catching up. Basically he had moved out of town and had just came back for the party.

He decided he wanted to go play poker for old time sake. I thought that was a great idea, but i had the wife with me and had no money ($22 in my wallet). He said he would drive and I could borrow from him. So I gave my wife the car keys and went with him.

While he was a good friend, we had never really borrowed money from each other before. We didn't have that type of relationship. So I didn't want to borrow from him so I had him stop at at the local ATM of my bank and I took out $500 (my daily limit). We went to the casino, I played $2/$5 buying in for $500. The max buy in is $1000.

I played for a bit and busted (like I mentioned in the OP, other players would chase draws even when not getting odds, they hit when calling my shove). It was just after midnight when I busted so I was able to go to the ATM and take out $500 (actually $490 after fees) for my next day daily withdrawal.

I then proceed to lose that buy in (again getting it in good). Like I said it is a good table with people chasing everything.

So I was broke.

I went to my friend/ride and said I was busted. I said I would take him up on the offer of him lending me the money. We really didn't have that type of relationship, but he was also the one who convinced me to go to the casino when I said I had no money.

He gives me the $1000 I rebuy in with.

I rebuy for the $1000 and that is when the hand comes up. Could I have asked him for an additional $175? Yeah, maybe, probably. Again, we didn't have this relationship. It was already awkward with me getting the $1000. I wasn't going to ask for more.

As for the Zelle option, I never thought of it and it never came up.

I will admit that I am an old enough that this wasn't a traditional option for me. I was always the type that rarely (if ever) loaned money and rarely borrowed money. My buy ins were always in my pocket. I always figured it was smarter to avoid drama by staying out of the transferring of money side of poker. So Zelle never occurred to me.

Annoying Tournament Reg: "You have to think a little different in this tournament."

Inner Monologue: No I definitely wish you'd stfu every tournament.

While this spot was totally inconsequential, I find the argument interesting: 1/2 game, player raises to $5. Next player says (this is verbatim), "I'll be friendly and give you a min-raise", and tosses out two red chips. I announce $10. The raiser asks if it should be $8. I tell him the word "min-raise" is not a binding poker term-- he could just be announcing that it's a small raise, as opposed to the absolute minimum, so it's $10. Nothing comes of it and the hand proceeds, but I ask my managers about it on my next break. The verdicts: one shift manager totally agrees, saying that "min-raise" is not a real poker term. Another shift manager disagrees, saying "min-raise" should be binding as $8. The room manager says it should be $8 because, "Min-raise means, 'I raise the minimum', which is $8". My argument is that, had the raiser said those exact words, I would have called it $8. But that's not the case-- he said, "I'll give you a min-raise", which isn't-- as the kids would say-- even a thing. I'm interested to hear what other rules nerds think of this...

IMO mgr is correct. Min raise is not ambiguous. The min raise is $3 making it $8. Player intent was clear. The words used (at least as common vernacular) are a specific amount.

Your logic, 'he could just be saying a small raise' is logically inconsistent with 'isn't even a thing'. Those words either have a meaning or they don't. If they had no meaning, then the raise is to $10 because he said nothing. But when you claim it might mean small raise and at the same time say it means nothing, you are logically inconsistent.

What if he said verbatim, "BET minimum" while tossing in the 2 Reds?

I think "min-raise" is good enough.

If someone really said "bet minimum", I think that should be interpreted as a call. A call is a bet - the minimum you can bet to continue in the hand.

When someone bets $30 on the flop and then says "same bet" as they toss in 2 green chips on the turn, their intent is clear. It's also, by rule, a $50 bet.

Similarly, when a player says, "I'm putting him all-in" we know their intent... and that's not a legal bet.

I get that we're in the service industry and we have to give leeway from time to time. But players have to realize that they're in a casino that is governed by rules and that they're not in the basement of their frat house.

These are all 'teaching' moments but typically should 'hold' unless someone at the table steps in. GL

I'm generally accommodating in moments like this, particularly when it's a low-limit, friendly game.

Someone says, "I'm putting him all-in" when they're heads up? I announce all-in and then explain the rule afterwards.

Someone says "Yo" and then tosses out 3 red chips? I announce that the bet is 11.

Someone bets all of their reds and greens at a 1-2 table and then finishes a string bet by tossing in their last 2 white chips? I announce all-in.

But when someone says "same bet" and tosses out 2 green chips? This isn't a teaching moment. It's time to enforce the rule.

Someone says "I bet the pot" at a no-limit table. Am I letting them get away with that? Nope.

As I stated before, there are rules, and I'm okay with bending some rules and ignoring some rules, but I'm not going to let players run rampant just because they're the customer.

Typo, or does "Yo" have a meaning I was not aware of?

it's a craps term for 11.

Just trying to test something, please ignore.

No, but at a friendly low-limit game I'd allow it. If someone objected they'd have a valid claim. Or if someone pushes in $265 chips in one motion and then puts in their last 2 dollars afterwards for a total of $267, I'd declare an all-in, but if someone objected and said it was a string bet, they'd be right.

Same here, though if someone says "same bet" before throwing anything in, I'm asking "How much is the bet?" to try and get them to say a number first. They sometimes snap back "I said same bet!" then throw out an oversized chip anyway. I'm not sure if this is over-stepping, but so far nobody has objected.

Curious why you feel "yo" is sufficient when "same bet" is not, when a much higher percentage of the table will know what "same bet" means than "yo"?

If a player asked "How much did I bet on the last street?" we aren't allowed to tell them. Announcing "same bet" requires that we tell them how much they had bet.

There's also some ambiguity at times - which bet are they referring to? What if there had been a raise-reraise situation? Or they weren't the one to bet on the previous round?

doesn't sound like there's any ambiguity, every time a player said "same bet" he meant whatever he bet on the previous street without facing aggressive action

never in my life I've seen someone say "same bet" and then bet a different amount or not even remember what the amount was in the first place

also if we allow 3 red chip "yo" to be $11, then a black chip (or 4 green chips) "ocho cinco" bet should be $85 every single time

Don’t want to butt into the dealer thread but my understanding is that you may or may not be held binding for the use of non-standard or regional terms at the floor’s discretion. They are highly discouraged but may be binding.

I don’t like yo but same bet means dealer is sharing information across streets.

Suspect you would be surprised at low limits how many other players don’t remember the amount.

Technically neither is legal.

We are in an ugly grey area where dealers are weighing the difference between enforcing technical rules and providing good customer service.

There are no good answers. Every answer is the presumed lesser of two evils.

My answer is to always not only make the best of the situation, but also let the player know where they are in a grey area. For example, in the situation of a player throwing in 3 red chips and saying "Yo". As long as it was in the spirit of the game and didn't affect the action, I would probably announce it as $11. However, after the hand, I would explain to the player that if he throws in 2 red and a white, saying "yo" is fine. But if he throws in 3 reds, he should say "Yo 11" just to be clear. I would follow with something like "It was fine this time, but technically Yo isn't a legal bet so if someone made a big deal of it that a floor would probably rule it a $15 bet."

My biggest issue with "Same bet". Is that it requires memory accross streets. Sure most of us know the amount in question, but it is vague and opens up the game to all sort of angles. For example, I used to deal to a player who had a fetish for prime numbers. So often he would bet $37 on the flop. It was his signature move. Occasionally he would use the phrase "Same bet" on the flop to refer to the $37 bet that everyone knew him for despite the fact that his preflop bet wasn't $37. Another example, 4 players to a flop. Someone bets $30 and gets a caller. Turn comes and player declares "same bet" while throwing out a black chip. Calling player throws out $10 and says call.

When the confusion is sorted out, the calling player says that in the previous hand they played together, the turn bet was $10. That is what he was calling. Saying "same bet" is just too vague and open to abuse by all players.

Similarly, the consequences of the confusion matter to me. If a player throws out 3 reds and says "Yo", the two options are $11 or $15. Not a large difference and probably irrelevant to anyone interested in continuing in the hand. However if a player throws out a black chip and says "Yo". I am probably immediately calling the floor. That is stretching it too far. There is a big difference between $11 and $100.

Sometimes it is tough to be a dealer.

Similarly I used to know a player who used to bet by calling out sports stars jersey numbers. He would throw out 5 red chips and say "Michael Jordan" meaning a $23 bet.

Obviously this led to all sorts of confusion.

It is one thing to say "Michael Jordan 23", it is another to just say his name.

Multiple floorpeople would call him on it all of the time and make him bet whatever he threw out. There was some back of house discussion on whether he was semi-angling or not. For example, if he had a borderline hand, he might throw out some small number of chips and call out a lesser known jersey number hoping that the resulting confusion would stop any raise. Or if he had a monster hand he would throw out a black chip and say "Mickey Mantle" despite having plenty of red chips in front of him, hoping that he would get called out on it and make the $100 bet stand.

Personally, I don't really think he was angling. I think he had more than enough money that he didn't care about the rulings on his vague bets and just got off on figuring out who else knew jersey numbers. To him, the back and forth on the jersey numbers was more interesting than the poker itself.