AQo in Unraked Home Game vs. Maniac
1/2 Unraked Home Game. Six handed. Standard open is 10. 3bet is 3x.
V (1,200) is a maniac who just earned plus $200,000 surveying a property in a desirable neighborhood. When I played tournaments with him twenty years ago, he won by barreling and rebuying. Now, he has a higher income and plays cash the same. This losing strategy cost him $3,000 by the end of the night.
V is playing more than half his hands, mostly open-raising or 3betting. Tonight, in a previous hand, V opened to 10, H 3bet to 30 with AhKd, V 4bets to 90, H 5bet all to 240, V called with As7s. V is nonetheless excellent at math. He is 3betting his too many bluffs exactly 3x, maybe once 3.5x. He has not yet 3bet 5x.
Hero (345) has a tight-passive image to V, who wants to gamble.
OTTH
Hero opens to 10 with AQo. V raises to 50. Hero?
So I'm thinking poker players fold this hand and professional gamblers shove. It depends on the variance you can withstand.
The game was unfamiliar. In this unraked game, my friend who plays 5/10 pro bought 1,500 to match stacks, lost 500, and wanted to end early and go to the casino. Only one player wanted to gamble with V. That player took home 3K. This was one of the only hands I thought I played incorrectly, and now I see I played it fine. I took home 50 dollars. I don't get it.
I think a lot of people would say you should have 4B. I think a 4B is defensible, logically, based on the info in your OP. But I also think folding AQo is fine. Maybe we 4B AQs and TT+/AK, at this stack depth.
It's one hand. If we could see the whole session, maybe we'd say you should limp with that hand in the LJ, anticipating his raise, and see what the others do before action comes back around. I suspect that would be a good play here, and I could get behind a limp-call or limp-3B strat vs this V,
with a range that includes AQo.
My general thinking with maniacs is that we benefit by switching things up, trapping more and bluffing more, instead of playing straight and opening a linear range. We want to turn their aggression back against them, and keep them on their heels. I'd rather limp-3B-5B-jam here than raise-4B-call a jam.
yeah idk i dont think a bet sizing tell that u have no info on is enough to not go all in
I can understand/respect this POV ... and in game I'd def. try to work out how much this information is randomness, but in my experience people very rarely do random things in this spot.
Maybe their reason is "we've been in an agro. war and I've been losing so I'm going bigger", maybe it's "there's 3 ways to play JJ and they all suck" but we shouldn't just ignore it because "LOL, I have AA/KK this time let's pile money in" is a very real thing all humans do (I've even seen people advocate for it on this forum).
Now there's some long term information to be gained by seeing a showdown (or even just if you win with AQ) and some image/etc. to be gained by ripping it and not folding, so if we are playing a lot with this person in this unraked home game then I'd be happier to pile 175bb in as a gamble and see what happens ... but I think we gain 90% of that info. by folding for 5bb and showing AQo.
I regret not giving stack sizes of all the players in the OP.
SB (1300)
BB (800)
LJ (345) (Hero)
HJ (1200) (Pro)
CO (1200) (Villain)
BTN (400)
Action: Hero opens 10. Pro folds. V raises to 50. Blinds fold. Hero?
In this scenario, V is less interested in bluffing hero off his 10 dollar open bet and more interested in playing for stacks, especially with the SB.
I don't hate folding without info on what the 5x 3b is. Could just be him steamed and trying to win vs you. But if this is a value tell then jamming is really bad. Not really a great hand to flat vs this size either.
Let's hope he had it this time and he gets more steamed when you fold. He is very active 3betting so if he starts using this size with all 3b you will find out pretty quick.
I regret not giving stack sizes of all the players in the OP.
SB (1300)
BB (800)
LJ (345) (Hero)
HJ (1200) (Pro)
CO (1200) (Villain)
BTN (400)
Action: Hero opens 10. Pro folds. V raises to 50. Blinds fold. Hero?
In this scenario, V is less interested in bluffing hero off his 10 dollar open bet and more interested in playing for stacks, especially with the SB.
I've seen results. How aggro was SB? I get that V wants his stack back from him, but IYO, would V expect SB to squeeze if V overcalled your open?
If that answer is Y, and V is somewhat thinking, then isn't V less likely to have a dominating premium here? And instead, at worst a med PP we'd be flipping with? If V even calls our shove.
Thinking a greater than std 3! is indicative of a hand that wants to buy the button and still be deep enough to play poker with SB. But not enough of a premium to GG-style induce a squeeze that V can back-raise upon. The nit (sorry, OP) will either get out of the way or jam.
Our hypo 4! would be a shove, right? Not a 4! to 125-150?
I can understand/respect this POV ... and in game I'd def. try to work out how much this information is randomness, but in my experience people very rarely do random things in this spot.
Maybe their reason is "we've been in an agro. war and I've been losing so I'm going bigger", maybe it's "there's 3 ways to play JJ and they all suck" but we shouldn't just ignore it because "LOL, I have AA/KK this time let's pile money in" is a very real thing all humans do (I've even seen people advocate for it
right and vs a reasonable person i would agree but the villain description and the prior hh's make me think this is not a wait for kk/aa and pile the money in guy. again he 4b called a7ss vs probably the biggest nit at the table (no offense op). i'm sure his 3b range is ungodly wide and this is the guy you should be gambling with anyways, not sitting there waiting for 2% of hands to snipe him. i would jam because i think you're ahead of his calling range given the a7 hand
to reiterate this is a maniac that doesn't care about money who is here to spew under the guise of gambling who ended up losing 1500bb
he 4b called a7ss vs probably the biggest nit at the table (no offense op). i'm sure his 3b range is ungodly wide and this is the guy you should be gambling with anyways, not sitting there waiting for 2% of hands to snipe him.
Being called a nit on 2+2 puts me in the company of good players.
I’m leaning now towards a jam. V is having fun losing money to his friends. Gambling with him may blow through a few bankrolls in the short term but pay off in the long run.
