Moderation Questions
The last iteration of the moderation discussion thread was a complete disaster. Numerous attempts to keep it on topic fa
rather than just making things up you can read my words. I didnt think Russia would invade bc I thought it was a really bad idea. I didnt support the invasion for obv reasons.
but now that we see what happens when you allow a genocidal Western outpost at your doorstep it makes a lot more sense.
Ukraine, famous genocidal Western outpost since 1991
bad faith is bad faith
Its extraordinary how they judge so confidently when they don't even understand what you're saying.
Its extraordinary how they judge so confidently when they don't even understand what you're saying.
As Rococo is fond of pointing out, confusion or misunderstanding on the part of the reader is almost always the fault of the writer. Unless the reader is one of the posters here who didn't make the list, obviously. Or a poster who made the list only as a vehicle for annoying others.
If you don't care about having false beliefs then fair enough
Credulousness is common. It's a matter of degree. Personally I'd rather be confused by confusing stuff until its resolved but ymmv
Its extraordinary how they judge so confidently when they don't even understand what you're saying.
Who didn't understand what Victor was saying? I assumed that he believed that the U.S. and Western Europe forced Russia's hand to a considerable degree, and his most recent post confirms that is what he believes.
I never suggested that he was happy that Russia invaded Ukraine. But now that the invasion has happened, we have to decide who to hold accountable. And Victor has decided that the U.S. and western Europe are more responsible than Russia.
He says that he started off apportioning responsibility 50/50 and only more recently came to the view that Russia was less than 50% responsible. I don't necessarily believe that his thinking evolved in the way he suggests, but it doesn't really matter. My inference seemingly is entirely in line with what he believes now.
rather than just making things up you can read my words. I didnt think Russia would invade bc I thought it was a really bad idea. I didnt support the invasion for obv reasons.
but now that we see what happens when you allow a genocidal Western outpost at your doorstep it makes a lot more sense.
famously genocidal Western outpost, Ukraine
I’m sure you care a lot about the tens of thousands of dead ukrainians just like you do about the palestinians
Who didn't understand what Victor was saying? I assumed that he believed that the U.S. and Western Europe forced Russia's hand to a considerable degree, and his most recent post confirms that is what he believes. I never suggested that he was happy that Russia invaded Ukraine. But now that the invasion has happened, we have to decide who to hold accountable. And Victor has d
they were confused about the "genocidal neighbor" paraphrase. that was ofc in reference to Israel. Russia possibly did not want an Israel type Western outpost installed on their doorstep. or Putin is Hitler part 2. (does that make Trump Hitler part 3?)
and I dont think they were confused. as usual they were just responding in bad faith and taking the worst possible interpretation.
Who didn't understand what Victor was saying? I assumed that he believed that the U.S. and Western Europe forced Russia's hand to a considerable degree, and his most recent post confirms that is what he believes. I never suggested that he was happy that Russia invaded Ukraine. But now that the invasion has happened, we have to decide who to hold accountable. And Victor has d
I wasn't actually commenting on that beyond some pleasure at seeing the irregular verb - no biggee as you dont use it as a basis of modding.
There can be a lot to unpack about the meanings of blame and responsibility but whatever.
and I dont think they were confused. as usual they were just responding in bad faith and taking the worst possible interpretation.
They may genuinely believe the worst intreptation. Bias is a very strong force.
I agree they were not confused. It did seem pretty obvious but some degreee of confusion was understandable. Or just being plain wrong a lot - at least it could help them undertsand others who believe nonsense so easily.
they were confused about the "genocidal neighbor" paraphrase. that was ofc in reference to Israel. Russia possibly did not want an Israel type Western outpost installed on their doorstep. or Putin is Hitler part 2. (does that make Trump Hitler part 3?)
Didn’t know Putin was a Minority Report style oracle that can detect precrime and preemptively annex a country for that
There can be a lot to unpack about the meanings of blame and responsibility but whatever.
chez,
We are not discussing blame and responsibility on some sort of esoteric, philosophical level. I am using those words in the way they are commonly used in conversation to discuss real world events. If Victor disagrees with the position I am ascribing to him, then I'm sure he will let us know. But I don't think that is the case.
Russia possibly did not want an Israel type Western outpost installed on their doorstep. or Putin is Hitler part 2. (does that make Trump Hitler part 3?)
This is a cheap comparison. We don't have to believe that Putin is Hitler in order to believe that the Russian government, and Putin specifically, bears a large share of the responsibility for the loss of life in Ukraine.
They may genuinely believe the worst intreptation. Bias is a very strong force.
I agree they were not confused. It did seem pretty obvious but some degreee of confusion was understandable. Or just being plain wrong a lot - at least it could help them undertsand others who believe nonsense so easily.
In what way was that the worst interpretation? In what way was is it a bad faith argument?
chez,
We are not discussing blame and responsibility on some sort of esoteric, philosophical level. I am using those words in the way they are commonly used in conversation to discuss real world events. If Victor disagrees with the position I am ascribing to him, then I'm sure he will let us know. But I don't think that is the case.
it's not hi filutin. It's just normal politcs. I frequently defened chamberlain who is blamed by many for appeasment and WW2, sometimes versailles or economics gets blamed etc etc . Dumbing it down by blaming hitler or arguing if hitler was more to blame is just ridicuous. And nothign to do with being symapthetic to hitler or the nazis
Politics is about what we could and should do better. We blame ourselves for our failings and what we need to do better. it's not even clear that saying putin is more to blame makes any sense - putin is part of the problem we should imo be trying to stop.
None of this may apply to victor. Who cares if you want to know he isn't shy he will tell you what he thinks. What does matter I would argue is the terrible mistake of confusing politics with finger pointing.
In what way was that done?
but now that we see what happens when you allow a genocidal Western outpost at your doorstep it makes a lot more sense.
It seems to me that this is suggesting that by not invading Ukraine that Russia could potentially be allowing a genocidal Western outpost at their doorstep. Is that a bad faith interpretation of the argument? If it is then I can't piece together what the argument even is.
Pointing out that since it became independent in 1991 Ukraine has never been a genocidal Western outpost is about as good faith an argument as it comes.
No offense to you as I think you're one of the best posters but it's one hell of a belief that he was talking about ukraine here. Maybe there's a need to check cos how it didn't occur that he might have been referring to israel leaves me a bit staggered.
then it's about trust of the west (mostly the usa) possibly?
Which country at Russia's doorstep is the "genocidal Western outpost" that might become Israel that the argument refers to?
No offense to you as I think you're one of the best posters but it's one hell of a belief that he was talking about ukraine here. Maybe there's a need to check cos how it didn't occur that he might have been referring to israel leaves me a bit staggered.
then it's about trust of the west (mostly the usa) possibly?
Have you heard the expression an open mind is like an open wound? That might apply in your case
