The "LOLCANADA" thread...again

PBO comes out with the corrected report on the carbon tax his findings

If you just calculate what you pay and get back CDNs are ahead
If you calculate all the costs CDNs pay more than they get back
He also stated doesn’t matter what CDNs do it will have no effect on climate change

What an incredible **** up. The corrections literally HALVED the economic costs of the carbon tax. HALVED. This is so embarrassing. Every single time poilievre or lozen droned on about the GDP hits, the data they used was exaggerated twice as bad as it really is. PBO should resign on the spot for letting such a dangerous fiction perpetuate.

Of course, this remains the “apples to nothing” comparison where there are small costs - HALF of what they were originally claimed to be - but it is compared to the baseline of doing absolutely nothing. As probably the cheapest and most economically efficient approach, if you ever do an “apples to oranges” comparison against any other plan, carbon tax is coming out WAY ahead.

And the report confirmed the carbon tax is likely to cut 13 megatonnes. Thats an important chunk needed for our Paris commitments. If you remove it, what else are you spending on to get it back?

Here is the reality the PBO is estimating the costs and no way can he be exact that CDN's pay more or that they get back more.

I still find it funny no one can tell me or is willing to tell us how they determine the average CDN pays in carbon tax . I heard it was based on a family of 4 owning one car and driving 15,000 kms a year .

Sounds accurate. Why are you mad about this?

The good news is that the carbon tax

• 1. Fiscally rebates much more money back in your pocket than it costs
  
• 2. Economically compared to "doing nothing" has HALF the cost it was estimated previously.
  
• 3. Cuts 13 megatonnes of emissions, an important component of meeting our paris accords
  

Sounds like a huge win.

Yet it still costs CDN's more than they get back . I do not know one family that drives 15,200 km in a year .

It’s hard to imagine any policy that has zero economic effects of any kind, but yes in “apples to nothing” comparison we can note big fiscal benefits giving you more money than you pay, and marginal economic effects half the value they were stated previously. Such an efficient policy, hard to imagine any climate change plan that could do better.

Why is the 15k thing causing you such a problem? It’s an average. I drive less than that, others drive more. A carbon tax helps incentivizing driving less, which more should do.

People in the city have the option to drive less . Your a rarity and I would bet you only have one vehicle as well which is not the norm either

You get what an "average" is - right?!?

Yes but it should be based on only folks that drive . Let’s be honest the carbon tax is nothing more than wealth redistribution

So you think the "Average" should not be an average it should just be an average of, uh, only the people who drive a lot?

Plenty of people in cities (remember rural people get a 20% bonus on the rebate) can and do drive less than 15.2k a year. Heck in BC there is bonuses for driving less than 10k and a bigger bonus for driving less than 5k. As 3/4 of Canadians live in one of three major urban centers you shouldn't be shocked that the average for Canadians is lower than your own personal existence. Think outside your box.

Well, yes, it does redistribute money from the wealthy (who use lots of carbon) to the poor (who don't use lots of carbon). Why exactly is that a bad thing?

uke shouldn't you want the carbon tax to take money from Canadians? I don't get why you spend all your time defending that it is making Canadians money. If the carbon tax is net neutral or negative how does it help climate change? If they are gonna do it they should at least do it right and that involves taxing people and not pretending to tax people. anyway the real question is if its doing anything and obviously its not its too small scale. So I guess its your end goal to increase it until it does? anyway half my family lost their job from a pulp plant that's closing . I do worry if its related

Your right there should be no rebates if you truly cared about climate change

As a newcomer to BC I have heard alot about how Eddy has destroyed the forestry industry. Don't get me going on the Jasper Fire and the federal governments incompetence on forestry management

The point is to create an incentive to convert from a high-carbon usage lifestyle to a low carbon usage lifestyle. The average can return all the money to the people so this isn't funding government operations, but for all the decisions people make (should I buy a gas guzzling truck or a small EV? Should I live far from work or close to work? Should I buy a 3000sq gas heated home in the burbs? Should I fly multiple times a year?), there is now a big incentive to choose the low carbon option. Under the carbon tax while it is more or less neutral on average, it hurts high carbon rich people and helps low carbon poor people.

In an ideal world the economic consequences (not fiscal) of doing that would be zero. But of course any type of market intervention in a capital market comes with some level of economic inefficiencies. So it is a really really good thing that the PBO reported that the economic costs to the GDP from the carbon tax are HALF what was previously reported. It means we get that great incentive to change behaviours without really crippling economic consequences. And that is measuring "apples to nothing", against a plan of doing absolutely nothing on climate change.

Now the current plan cuts 13 megatonnes a year going up to 2030. That's an important plank in a comprehensive plan to lower canada's emissions and if you scrap the tax you have to find some other (probably much more expensive) way to replace those cuts. Yes, it does need to increase a little every year tightening the screws and right now it rises every year to 2030, presumably we keep going after that.

No, the carbon tax is nowhere near the top issue to BC's softwood lumber challenges. #1 are american tarrifs.

Lol no. That would 10x the COST to people of the carbon tax without changing the incentive! You'd save the identical amount of money from lowering your carbon usage with or without the rebates. That would provide billions and billions to government revenue to be spent on other things which may or may not be debatable, but if you wanted to increase the incentives the carbon tax imposes you should increase the tax, not stop the rebate.

I actually quite like 90% of the carbon tax I did a bit more research. I just hate that its hurting us compete with the usa and other major powers who don't have a tax at the same time were struggling to keep up. I don't think it should be a huge election deal that they are trying to make it out to be. Its not important at all from the numbers ive looked at except for the later issue I wonder about which I couldn't find much about

Trudeaus minions are starting to revolt

I just don’t get why many being against carbon tax aren’t just favouring the free market on carbon that for example quebec is part of ……
If they really believe in climate changes needing a response and are for the principle of free market always being the right solution .

Folks are just sick of Justin . I saw CTV were 1/3 or 1/2 of the folks that voted for him want him gone. People are just tired of all the scandals and I think when he removed the carbon tax on home heating oil to buy votes in Atlantic Canada he lost any credibility he had left

You have 30 MP's that are revolting and calling for him to resign. What shocked me is the fact the PM does not have wifi on his plane and never heard the news about the revolt till they landed in Hawaii to refuel

I just cant see him as the leader moving forward

Lmao it’s hilarious obvious jokes like the wifi thing get picked up by lozen as a true fact he actually believes

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/thousand...

Sorry if I believe CTV news when they said he had no wifi

You actually believe Trudeau survives till the next campaign?

Oh wow, inflation down to 1.6%!!!!!

It’ll fall further as interest rates plummet, since mortgage interest is one of the things still propping up that 1.6%.

Credit where credit is due: Trudeau has slain inflation. The rest of the g7 is playing catch up.

Yet Canada's GDP growth has fallen 7 quarters in a row . Do we blame Trudeau for that?

You mean the rate of change of growth? Because Canada's GDP is GROWING not FALLING, and Canada's GDP growth is actually 2nd best in the g7!!!!!!! I presume you are giving Trudeau credit for that? Even if you do mean that, the fact that 7 quarters ago Canada has a local maximum on GDP growth, it hasn't fallen consistently since then, it's just that it never attained that high again. So deceptive.

Of course high interest rates are meant to cool the inflated market to tamp down on inflation, the real goal is for a "soft landing" i.e. to get inflation down below the target (CHECK! DONE! Thanks Trudeau!) while not hurting the economy too poorly while doing so. So far it seems this has been managed well, but of course a recession could be just around the corner so too soon to say exactly. The years of above-average GPD growth might well be due for a correction.

It’s like fighting climate changes while rising your oil consumption .
Good luck .