2024 ELECTION THREAD

Your candidate is not doing well and she has agreed to be on Fox for a 30 minute unedited interview. I wouldn't count my chickens.

Brace yourselves

A judge just put an end to Trump’s sinister plan to try to steal the election in Georgia

It’s scary that fair elections might come down to a single judge doing the right thing.

The Leon bump has to be the most overrated concept I’ve ever seen. If you’re the kind of ADOPT ME ELON super weird Tesla bro who needs to follow whatever he says, chances are you were already voting for Trump

If you were a true undecided there’s no chance on earth Leon tipped the scale for you

I don't think it has anything to do with Musk. Trump gaining 15c probably has more to do with early voting indicators than what Elon is tweeting. It's probably info we just don't really have yet.

But the bettors have that info?

Not sure how this logic tracks at all unless you somehow think betting sites have access literally nobody on planet earth is legally allowed to have on polling

Most likely betting odds are tracking sentiment and even Leon himself is hyping the betting odds so it makes more sense that if the owner of Twitter with 200 million followers is shilling betting movement towards trump you should push the odds further in trump’s favor regardless of a basis in reality

Like I said, I don't have a candidate. Air guitar jerking off 2 penises simultaneously sounds progressive though; maybe that's why he's gaining in the polls.

this guy was a leader of Hillary's 2016 campaign

the 2 months of whining between election day and jan 6 are part of the payout. there is nothing for them to 'keep' and the courts will 'LOL' them out of the rooms once again...

To the guy who insists we need to understand MAGA voters I say that’s a total waste of time

Voting for trump is more about the idea of what trump is more than the candidate which is why he could literally **** himself on stage in every rally he has and not lose a single vote. Look at posters like BlowJob or blahblah or everyone else and it’s plain as day

1. You can say whatever you want without a basis in reality and you owe nobody an ounce of accountability. Get proven wrong? Move on to the next lie without acknowledging you were wrong
2. Woke libtards will stay mad, just laugh at them
3. People who don’t think like you deserve to feel pain, and this candidate will make them feel constant anxiety for 4 years while you point and laugh
4. White power
5. All of your wildest conspiracies will be believed by someone, spread into the mainstream and reiterated as fact by the president of the United States and it will never matter if there’s no truth cuz truth is just a George soros concept by the libtards

Assuming trump being a halfwit will cause a reckoning by any of the conspiracy theorists or tea party bozos is the most laughable idea ever. He will never be abandoned because his mainstream legitimacy is just as much a means to end for the voters as the voters are a means to an end for trump

In case you were curious it’s October 15, 2024

ya its crazy how mask off liberals have gone with their xenophobia and racism

Precisely the same thing can be said about you. An old shoe could run for President and progressives everywhere would vote for it, because it's not Trump.

Given that, this highfalutin posturing at being such critical thinking, well-read, morally superior, highly sophisticated and deeply learn-ed true believers in democracy is borderline obscene.

Yes, i think there is public information, that includes polls, that can be utiIized into better determining who is voting for who. Google is a player in this.

Im pretty confident that there is a gap between digesting that information into somwthing useful in predixting the next prez and what the 2+2 regs are thinking.

Okie dokie then

"We don't live in a Democracy... and if we do, he didn't try to end it... and if he did anyway what about the Democrats"

Let's put it into a syllogism so that we can have some clarity here

P1. If Trump tried to overturn the results of the election through unlawful means, he tried to overturn Democracy
P2. Trump tried to overturn the results of the election through unlawful means
C1. Trump tried to overturn democracy.

P1. If Trump tried to overturn democracy, he attempted to end it.
P2 (From C1) Trump tried to overturn democracy
C2. Trump attempted to end democracy.

And why would it have ended? If Pence had gone along with him and succeeded, it basically means that if so desired the VP could always select the next president by simply refusing to certify slates of electors that they didn't like. This goes against the ECA. I know the first rabbithole is going to be that one time Hawaii certified two slates so that they would both be lawfully certified and ready to go upon determination of which candidate actually won the electoral votes for the state. That's completely different than attempting to forge alternate slates of electors and presenting them as official documents.

Another rabbithole is going to be "but muh Kamala didn't have to win any votes for her primary". A primary is how private parties choose to resolve the nomination process. They used the nomination process that was set before them, and the delegates chose Kamala as Biden's replacement once he dropped out. It isn't a threat to democracy because people still have to vote.

Also want to talk about why America IS a democracy. It's a representative democracy and a constitutional republic. We vote... people are elected to represent us. Regardless of the history of the electoral franchise, this has always happened. And over time it has become more and more democratic. We also have minority rights, so you can't just infinitely do whatever you want (I'm sure you like the 1st, 2nd, 5th amendments for example), but we have to follow the laws that we have. If we don't follow those laws and we don't follow the democratic norms, then we have nothing. I'm sure you can come up with lots of criticisms of how the system works, and I might even agree with some of them, but that doesn't mean you can just install yourself as the leader without any actual process.

Even Al Gore, who actually had an argument for why he might have actually won the election (contested outcome in a state that was won by a few thousand votes that if overturned would have changed the outcome), accepted the results of the election knowing the damage it would do to the US if he said that the election was stolen from him. Now the damage he has done will take decades to fix, whether you think he is the better candidate or not, whether he wins or not, whether he doesn't do anything antidemocratic for the rest of his life (I doubt it) or not. Absolutely, liberals get pissed off and some of them even get triggered, angry, disgusted, emotional at Trump. That's because he legitimately did something traitorous. You can try to filibuster and go down these rabbitholes, but that's what happened. Trying to attack the messenger rather than the message on that is just a rhetorical tactic you're attempting.

Rhetoric, rhetoric, rhetoric. I'll smoke you in any abortion debate, any trans debate, probably any debate that you want to have. Oh also, complete projection. You came into this threads guns blazing about me being a "Zoloft ambassador", and then get all triggered when I push back on that, trying to throw any insult you can against me. You're trying to portray me into some kind of light where you feel like you can belittle me and insult me hoping people won't notice that you have nothing of value to add to the conversation or the forum. At the end of the day, nothing that you have written in this thread has any substance, and neither has anything you've written since you've started contributing here. The only reason I respond to anyone here is not to change your mind, but rather to show how transparent and pathetic the conservative movement is now. There's no policy, just empty rhetoric. Instead of having a conversation about abortion, you want to throw it in there as a jab to virtue signal. It makes sense because there's probably nothing you can say about abortion that would add anything to the conversation. Same as the trans issue or any other issue you want to go down.

Ok, that's fine. Just don't be mad that when you do that you get called a moron with no principles. Nobody with any principles lets insults change those principles. If you're tough on crime, be tough on crime when you commit a crime. If you're a prison abolitionist, be a prison abolitionist when your family members get murdered. Principles are only principles if we hold them through thick and thin.

In reality, most people, whether democrat or republican, don't actually understand the issues. I'm under no illusion that the common person is capable of understanding every political issue, or even wants to. That's what frustrates me about this type of superficial populism that you are putting forth as the solution. We're putting our trust into people that neither understand nor have the desire to understand how our political system works. That's why dismantling the establishment is dumb if you have no idea what you want to replace it with. Give me an establishment Republican over a MAGA Republican any day of the week. I have no problem with principled conservatives, I think we need them in a healthy society and discourse. But let's not pretend that the easily manipulated polity are the only place we can look to for our political answers. Oftentimes they don't even know what it is they want and change their positions based off the last person they talk to. Again, this goes for the left and the right.

That doesn't mean that there is any better system than democracy just because it has problems. If I'm pointing out the problems with democracy, it doesn't mean I want something else. Just like pointing out the problems with capitalism means I want to be a socialist. I'm just realistic as to why populism doesn't work and you need a certain level of elitism and institutionalism for any of this to function.

I will say that yeah, I think "privilege" is an overused concept, you can be racist against white people, men have issues that shouldn't be swept under the rug, rural people should get respect and not be dismissed, I can get behind a lot of what you're saying there. That's why I said you're arguing with a ghost. I'm a liberal, I'm not an SJW or a socialist or a cancel culture freak. However, just because I identify problems with my side of the spectrum that doesn't mean I'm going with who I view as a traitor with a dangerous foreign policy that will cede the 21st century to China and Russia. Those are my two big criticisms of Trump that I rehash over and over again consistently on this forum. I will stand by those no matter how much you try to make this about some culture war BS or your favorite reactionary narrative about woke lefties.

The Dem whining and attempts to subvert the results post Nov 5 will be worse than Trump 2020-21.

okie dokie

mask-off bernie-bro victor explaining how the mask off works...

We will never know the true number but I’d be curious how many votes each candidate due to racism.

I think it has more to do with articles we get like this... Sure its public information, but it isn't like the SEC is going to target trump betters and we don't know when and how this info came into fruition and how to calculate it. I don't think the odds are moving much on general sentiment and Elon, but anything is possible, i guess

Kamala Harris is trailing Trump in Arizona, but all’s not lost yet

I will very briefly answer this because I believe you are disingenuous and will attempt to do every single one of the things I accused you of, but here goes anyway.

These syllogisms are meaningless without a proper definition of terms. What does democracy mean?

Any congressional act is superseded by the Constitution (including the ECA), so your point that a Vice President exercising his presumed constitutional authority "goes against the ECA" is irrelevant. The theory of Trump's AG (outlier as it was) was that Pence had constitutional authority to change electors. As we know from the most recent ruling from SCOTUS, Trump had presumptive immunity in this case, so not only did he not he break the law de jure, he didn't break the law de facto either. It was (and still is) a legal gray area. Calling it 'criminal' is disingenuous, and jumping to legal conclusions that simply haven't been made yet.

That said, I'm personally glad Pence didn't do what he was asked and I think a VP veto of electors would undo the entire purpose of the electoral college, so in substance I agree with your point, but disagree Trump's actions were a priori illegal.

Claiming that the American people decide who the leaders of their political parties are is laughably uninformed. And this absolutely includes Donald Trump (who was basically hand-picked by Steve Bannon).

In theory and on paper, maybe. In reality, America is a corporate oligarchic empire of technology, capitalism and war. That remains true regardless of which potato is running for President.

Pence clearly did the same thing, so he should be your hero, I suppose.

The fact you think a debate would solve any of these issues really says it all.

My intention was not to hurt your feelings with my observations. However, someone who feels insulted by someone else's observations is usually either insecure or in denial. Which one is true of you?

You've just described integrity. Most of the left has none, and are instead an amorphous blob of moral pretension.

If you think I am pro-populism, you are mistaken.

Whichever system is best for an individual or group is completely dependent upon the goals, desires, and values of that individual or group. Churchillian platitudes about how least worst democracy is for the average person aren't very convincing to me.

This is just a platitude that your rabid defense of Kamala Harris doesn't jibe with. I'll believe it when I see it.

You take for granted that all Trump supporters are the same—they're not. Obviously, you're not going to change everyone's mind, but I'm certain that more of them would flip if they weren't constantly being mocked and told how rotten and stupid they are. This also applies to conservatives who call progressives "libtards."