Bleffcatch or mucky mucky?

Regret playing the flop and turn so weakly against two fish

As played I'd just call with an Ace here, you have so many of them

I would bet the turn here I think.

As played, I think this is a fold. As moxterite mentioned, you have a lot of AX here. The fact that V1 appears to be value betting on a card that improves your most likely hand makes me think he is not bluffing. I also think he is going to be bluffing less often multi-way with a whale in the mix.

I don't think calling while getting this price against an opponent who can do weird stuff is too bad though.

I don't understand the turn check, especially against two calling stations. If you believe you can only get two streets of value vs. these two players, I'd prefer to bet the turn and possibly check behind on the river.

i dont really see what he's supposed to have, either for value or for a bluff lol. think your post line is not very good and you have fairly poor hand blockerwise to call but i really dunno what he's supposed to have. dont see why u didnt bet turn to put v2 all in. flop size seems poor with your hand too - you have no heart, many over cards, u really want to get the money in as soon as possible not play some weird 3 street game esp vs morons

think i'd reluctantly call this one mostly based on bet size - like what is he realistically supposed to have for value? sets? AJ? seems unlikely to me he chooses this size, particularly not putting v2 all in if he has it. is odd cuz usually cc 3b is pairs but idk he seems like he has all kinds of stuff and if u just look at plausible combos that missed, theres a ton of sds, and fds, and i think he can turn pairs into bluff based on description. its hard for me to see too many bare Ax hands that c/c the flop, like if he has nfd he seems type to go for it otf from description. idk u gotta win 25% surely u do. small point too but i think u could get away with 3bing bigger initially

sadly, i think op has me muted

I would bet more otf, and I would bet the turn.

As played I'm folding otr but that's just me again. I don't think we're good here based on his read and previous hands so far. He's betting into 2 other people in a 3bet pot, I don't think it's just a stab.

I don't get the 1/4 pot bet on the flop - there's a lot of bad turns and you're allowing some marginal hands to correctly call when you can punish a calling station that overcalls. Turn is sort of the same thing - you have the best hand yet allow them to realize their equity for free. I think on the river against a capable opponent I would call - I think you got yourself into a bad spot given your flop/turn play, but I think he only bets two pair Ax on the river for value. I also don't see V1 cold calling from the SB with much - AJ maybe the only hand he could have here.

I guess it was only a drawing hand.

He prolly wanted to keep the whale in, or maybe thought he'd 4bet.

Raise bigger pre. At least $60, if not $75.

I probably size up a little with the c-bet, given the reads on these two V's.

Over-bet pot on brick turn, like 1.3x.

If we bet turn and V donked river, I'd likely fold. As played, when we check back turn, and V donks, I don't know. It's close. He might have been calling flop and turn with AJ or A9. I think it's probably still a fold.

interesting line, thx doc, I can definitely fold easier if I had shown more aggression

FWIW - when we've got loose-sticky V's, but we have a good starting hand, I'm in favor of raising larger pre, and basically trying to get as much money into the pot as possible on every street where we're likely to have the best hand. Hence my suggestion to raise bigger pre, c-bet bigger on the flop, and bet bigger on the turn.

Not looking to beat you up, but even though we're supposed to c-bet smaller in 3-bet / multi-way pots, I think betting 1/4 pot with QQ on this very wet and dynamic flop is generally a mistake no matter who the V's are. We won't love seeing any A, K, heart, or straight-completing card on the turn or river. So we're basically hoping to fade half the deck.

When we're going to hate so many cards, I tend to play my thick value hyper-fast. If one of these guys flopped 2P+, I'd expect to hear from them on the turn, even if we bet 1/2 to full pot. When they don't raise flop, I'm bombing the turn on a brick.

The general point of taking this sort of line is to get max value pre and on flop, and punish them for making loose calls pre or chasing draws on the flop. I don't mind taking the pot down on the turn, because we got max value on the earlier streets, and our hand is still pretty vulnerable. I'd be checking back a lot of rivers, though.

The turn check is the biggest mistake here, IMO. I don't hate the smallish 3B size pre, or the 1/4 pot c-bet. But that turn check is no bueno.

All that said - V1's river bet is semi-suspicious, when we could have all the AK combos here. I don't blame you for thinking he's just making a play for the pot after you check back turn.

I wouldn't be shocked if he had some weird AX combo that was 1P + a draw, or just the naked NFD that ran into top pair on the river, and I would never expect him to have AA/KK, but that's why I'd bomb turn - to charge all their AX and draws to see the river.

If you played it my way, you just lose more, but V is definitely making a mistake letting us realize all our equity by playing AA this way. He can show up with a lot of Ax, but he's not supposed to have AA when he plays it this way, and I don't think he'd bet the river without at least TPTK, if not 2P.

Anything to make of V1's coldcall of a 3bet preflop? I mean, that's weird, right? ETA: Lol, just saw reveal, now it makes sense.

Weird postflop spot. Trivially committed against the shorter stack whale. But I don't think we want to commit against V1, although at this SPR we'll have to be careful. So I think with all that in mind I can actually get behind our flop/turn play... but I find these spots very tough.

I think I mostly fold the river. Our hand looks like AK. The whale is protecting the pot. River is way underbluffed multiway in general. On the other hand we're getting a decent price, underrepped, and drawes busted.

Gtoughspotsall'round...atleastformeG

Are we really under-repped? We've played this exactly like an Ace too scared to double barrel, so.if anything we're overrepped

3! bigger pre.

I'm actually fine with flop sizing OR checking back turn, but I think doing both is somewhat misunderstanding the merits of a small balling here.

How do you Pot / Pot every TPNK and get committed in MP of 4-way pots, but you show up to the river only having put 1/4p as the preflop aggressor with the effective button with an overpair?

Such a weird hand, would 100% have lost more than H.

Would raise a bit bigger preflop, probably 60 but maybe 65 or more with V2 who can't find a fold.
SB cold call is a little concerning, but would mostly assume it's random can't fold bad play.

Would bet bigger on the flop, at least 50 but maybe just lol half pot IP.

On the turn brick with such a small flop bet just called in both spots ... I'm betting big.

River I assume one pair is never good when people lead here, like I'd sigh call AK but I doubt it's good unless V1 is an idiot or a genius.
We also have so much AK/AQ we just don't need to call KK/QQ without a great reason. If I'd played JJ this way I would raise, and probably snap call the shove assuming he has 99 or even 66.

Ordinarily I'd say the cold-call of a 3B from the SB is fishy as hell, but maybe V thinks a cold 4B looks too strong, and is either hoping the EP raiser puts in the 4B, or if not, he's happy to play his AA this way, starting out so deep with hero.

Like, if the EP raiser puts in the 4B, maybe the whale spaz-jams for $300, hero calls, and V can put in the loving-life back-5B re-jam.

Seems really optimistic on his part, but it's LOL-stakes, so anything can happen.

Hero's hand seems under-repped because all our over-pairs would likely barrel river, no?

If we had a big ace, it seems less likely V would try to bluff when the ace peels off on the river.