Overpair on a wet board, call or fold to a 1.6x pot turn jam by a lady?

I can't see how flatting the BTN's open raise from the SB with TT is ever a good play, especially with the bizarre logic about the fish in the straddle, who still hasn't acted and has ATC.

I would 3b pre. I actually like being shallower in this spot. Getting TT all-in for less than 40 straddles against a button open is a decent situation. You also may get more folds from hands like KJs that don't want to go to a flop with an SPR of ~1. Make it $65 and call off against a button jam.

AP I probably call. You have extra straight draw outs against the value-range that wants to do this (bigger overpairs) and are ahead of 89s, 9x, combo draws, etc. If she has a a full house and you are dead to 2 outs, just mentally tag her as a nit and move on.

Yeah at this depth I prefer to 3b/fold than see the flop 3-way oop. But it's hardly a great spot. As described, we're at best flipping with lady Villain even from the BTN.

AP: turn is a good spot to block bet and see if H can slow her down and bink river. We have all the 7x, two-pair here and more boats probably. We probably have as many JT too.

Maybe she can just blast us off by jamming over us but I think we might slow her down.

Anyway, we probably have to fold this turn. She really should only jam JJ blocking our JT and QQ for protection. But it's live poker so she can obviously have AA,KK and 99 too.

Can't we put her on FDs with two overs like AQss, AKhh that plays this way? Or these hands should be discounted?

Semi-bluffs can also include hands like 68hh?

In general 3! is certainly a good option. During the hand I did not feel like gambling my full stack against her all-in range. Once 3-bet even using just a 4x size, or 65 as you said, I would be quite committed to call a jam. If we couldn't end the battle with a 3! PF, and especially if we get two callers, we would have to give up on a lot of the flops being the SB.

Still, I am open to and appreciate different thoughts.

That's fine, even though you're likely giving up potential profits by folding.

However, I'd imagine that calling will cost you more in the long-run versus just forfeiting your small blind.

I agree that any 3b here is basically committing. But lots of things happen when you 3b that do NOT wind up in an all-in scenario. Most people (even tighter players) open the button pretty wide and will just fold to a 4x 3b. Sometimes they just call and you end up on a flop like this with an SPR of 1 and a very easy decision to make w/r/t getting your stack in. If the straddle cold-calls $65, they are probably a whale and someone that you don't mind getting to a flop against with TT and a low SPR anyway.

I think I agree with AF that folding TT may be a less bad option than calling, especially if the button is REALLY tight. It's just a tough hand to play out-of-position against two wider ranges.

Yeah not a good play in the long run.

Any thoughts on the turn AP?

Just jam pre. 3.5x is a third of your stack so jam

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Wat? You want to respond to "Raise to 17" with "Reraise all-in to $190"?

Why not?
We are oop. I'm not calling here for sure. Folding is ridiculous. So I can raise 3.5x to 60. But general rule once a third of your chips are in you may as well Jam especially oop. So just jam. We only started with 40bb. TT can go all in

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You probably need to give both a raising range and a raise/call range for the Villain before saying "TT is good enough. All you can eat."

In theory this makes all the sense, however in practice it has lots of problems. I am not sure whether the problems are caused by my limited sample size or there are other factors I have not thought of.

Digging further into the PF decision, do you also jam with AQo and 99？How about AJs?

If stack depth ratio remains the same, what's your open-jamming (4 bet) range from UTG with an MP 3 bet and a BTN caller?

Yes probably smthg like 99+ AJo+ ATs+ KQs+
thinking about it the other way to play is to 3b small like to 40 and see what happens. Then you can raise with a few more hands. But you have to use one bet size with all hands and play accordingly

For the 4b jam I think JJ+ maybe TT. AQs AK.

I do t like having a flatting range especially with rake and with the 3 blind structure as it's too cheap for the strdl to join.

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Deep shmeep. TT in the SB is an auto-3B facing a BTN open. If you don't want to pot-commit yourself, make it like 2.5x, around $45, or just go $50.

Flop - we've got an over-pair, a backdoor straight draw, and we un-block spades. Think I probably check-raise here, to $80.

TURN - as played to this point, I think I probably call. We've got an over-pair and we're open-ended. We got here how we got here. Our hand is under-repped, and we can't be drawing dead unless she has a boat.

40 BB deep gto only raises btn to 2.2x, and it MUSTLY 3 bets to 7x, and it jams some, but TT is too STRONG to jam with. here with 3.5x raise, youd theoretically 3 bet to like 10-12 BB and then call a jam, but I think open jamming is perfectly fine.

The fact youre cold calling TT in the SB shows your preflop 3 betting ranges are WAYYYY off, because in this spot id be 3 betting with like Q9s and 66.

note, itd only be this wide against a tightish V only because hero said he had been tight lately too.

Pretty sure "mustly" isn't a real word, but seriously think it ought to be.

There's a lot going on pre. and I don't think it's as simple as "lol, 3bet TT" ... if V knows it's a straddle and is raising small, I'd def. 3bet ... but if there's a decent chance she thought it was just a limp then the open to 17 is a lot more scary, and she might take this line with QQ+ and sometimes AhKh/AhQh.
Also if there's any chance she thinks a raise to 17 gets called by the straddle but her limping would often induce a bigger raise from one of you ... range might be complete trash.

Would "mustly" prefer folding JJ and calling TT on turn. Would assume V is shoving too wide (but if it's a lot of overpairs that's still bad) or just 7x or better. We have some 7x and 65, maybe some JT ... but also a bunch of stuff that wants to fold.
But again, we want her to be wide pre. and have lots of 8x/9x hands and not just have QQ+ and big NFD.

In my local casino, most population's 3 bet range is QQ (discounted), KK, AA, AK. In the above situation if we opened UTG with JJ or AQs, saw a 3! and a cold-caller, our 4! jam can only get the cold caller to fold, very very unlikely the 3 bettor is going to fold, and JJ / TT/ AQs inc. QQ are not doing well against the 3 bettor's range.

Opening 17 in a straddle pot IP with no limpers is already larger than the more commonly seen 'opening 15' when it's straddled.

Without straddling, the normal opening size is between 6-10.

Yes, facing a 3 bet you can way overfold and not 4 bet, but these factors are why irs even more important to 3 bet frequently, is how much credit people will give you.

The problem here is hero's passive play on the previous streets leads to a much bigger problem on the turn, when our villain shows us the aggression we didn't expect.

We can give her all the overpair combos. JJ-AA has 24 combos, against which we are at 22.73% equity on the turn.

We can give her the last combo of TT, which we are calling for a chop.

We can give her ATss (59.09%), AJss (75%), AQss (68%), AKss (68.2)

We can also give her all the AThh-AKhh, I would discount the possibility of these hands given she c-bet the flop.

We can give her all the board-related suited connectors, 3 combos of 67s (86.4%), 2 combos of 78s (4.55%), 2 combos of 89s (4.55%), 1 combo of 9Thh (61.4%), 2 combos of JT for the straight plus she'll have freeroll to a flush (6.8%)

We discount the gappers, because not sure she'll open them PF. Against 57ss we are at 77.3%, against the other two combos of 57s (95.45%), against 2 combos of 68s (13.64%), 2 combos of 79s (90.9%), no suited 8T combos, J9hh (75%), we don't give her J9dd & J9cc.

We don't give her any of the 33-66.

Against 3 combos of 77, we are 9%, 3 combos of 99 (4.5%). 1 combo of 88 which we are drawing dead.

If I am not missing out on any significant hands, and use 50% possibility to discount the above mentioned 'less likely' hands, we are at around 37% equity against her range.

The pot odds is offering us 37.85%. In theory we could call.

Obviously during the hand I wouldn't be able to do a precise calculation, and I tended to believe the range analysis after the session will give our opponent more hands that they probably don't play that aggressively. I folded on the turn.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.

Not a big one for doing a lot of complex mental math at the table.

My in-game analysis as hero would be we've got an over-pair to the board, we're under-repped, we unblock the two flush draws, and we've got an OESD. We might actually have the best hand here, and if not, we probably have 10 outs to improve, so we're rarely worse than a 20% under-dog here on the turn, unless she has JJ, removing two of our outs.

I dunno. If our read is she's nitty and has no bluffs in her, aight, fold. But if she ever has any bluffs in her, this seems like a spot where she might try one.

Take it with a grain of salt. I have a habit of leveling myself into making loose calls in spots like this. She could easily take this line with JJ+, and we're just toast.