2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
To clarify for the hard of reading:
a). I think it's ridiculous that some of these procedures are being categorised as medically necessary.
b). I don't think it's ridiculous for a politician to advocate in general for providing medically necessary procedures to inmates.
Hence I've asked about a dozen times now whether Kamala had a hand in categorising these procedures as medically necessary, which nobody has even attempted to answer.
To clarify for the hard of reading: a). I think it's ridiculous that some of these procedures are being categorised as medically necessary b). I don't think it's ridiculous for a politician to advocate in general for providing medically necessary procedures to inmates.
Hence I've asked about a dozen times now whether Kamala had a hand in categorising these procedures as medically necessary, which nobody has even attempted to answer.
Ya to me this is where the average person needs to put some common sense in.
Of course a doctor can be found that will deem this medically necessary. A doctor can be found to give any opinion of your choosing.
Rather than using common sense, I think it's a poor political position to provide "medically necessary" procedures for inmates based on some quackshot doctors medical opinion.
Since you're actually now ignoring my questions and requests for clarification, I'm just gonna go ahead and call bullshit on this whole view. Sounds like someone has been jacking off to too many Trump campaign ads and caught the MAGA brain worms.
look man, i genuinely like you, but you're going in with almost zero understanding of how healthcare works in america and it's unfair for you to expect me to explain how it works for you, especially given how complex it is and how much it varies from state to state, person to person, company to company, etc
i'm also neither a doctor nor work in insurance so not an expert on either
but, as someone with reasonable income who is self employed and doesn't have company provided healthcare, i'm fully aware of the burden of costs put on individuals in this country
i'm personally putting off and delaying a lot of things that i should probably be getting screened/looked at - for example, a colonoscopy, simply because with the coverage i have, it'll be an event which will cost me thousands of dollars
so i'm rolling the dice and hoping i don't have colon cancer, or if i do, i'll perhaps be in a situation where i'm working for the man again and can doctors to stick their fingers up my ass for a much lower out of pocket cost in the near future where we're still catching it early enough to be able to do something about it
Were you seriously questioning whether I understood what your perspective was? I think that my posts illustrate that I understand perfectly well what you are saying.
i've always held you in high regard and as a moderate, but in recent years i definitely feel like you're slipping into partisanship and beginning to lose connection with understanding what the other side believes
ie you mentioning appendicitis was an example of bad faithed posting - but i truly don't think you'd ever post in bad faith - so the only reasonable conclusion i can draw is that you fail to understand even the basics gyst of my beliefs nor do you both to attempt to understand it because you view me as a simpleton who is not capable of having a reasonable thought - much in the same way many posters here are routinely dismissed out of hand
Ya to me this is where the average person needs to put some common sense in.
Of course a doctor can be found that will deem this medically necessary. A doctor can be found to give any opinion of your choosing.
Rather than using common sense, I think it's a poor political position to provide "medically necessary" procedures for inmates based on some quackshot doctors medical opinion.
Your contention seems to be that
a). a prisoner can just go doctor shopping and find some doctor who deems the procedure they want medically necessary. As far as I know, prisoners don't get a choice of doctors, so I don't see this scenario as realistic.
b). Even if we surmount a), you are saying that once a doctor, any doctor, deems a procedure medically necessary, the prison is just going to pay for it. Again, I don't see this scenario as particularly realistic.
So, again, who needs to deem it medically necessary in order for the prison to pay for it?
Rickroll, did you know that the state pays for inmates to be fed, housed and clothed as well? I'm sure once your part time Target employee hears about this, he's going to be straight down the local bank branch with a sawn off.
i think violent criminals should be thrown in a hole and left to rot
i think people like you can be saved, but also don't think your stay should have been in the slightest bit comfortabel
Your contention seems to be that a prisoner can just go doctor shopping and find some doctor who deems the procedure they want medically necessary. As far as I know, prisoners don't get a choice of doctors, so I don't see this scenario as realistic.
So, again, who deems it medically necessary?
Iglesias wants boobs. Prison doctor says nope, not medically necessary.
Iglesias finds an outside doctor that deems boobs are necessary for trans.
Iglesias sues to get government to pay.
Government pays.
Ya to me this is where the average person needs to put some common sense in.
Of course a doctor can be found that will deem this medically necessary. A doctor can be found to give any opinion of your choosing.
Rather than using common sense, I think it's a poor political position to provide "medically necessary" procedures for inmates based on some quackshot doctors medical opinion.
afterall...
look man, i genuinely like you, but you're going in with almost zero understanding of how healthcare works in america and it's unfair for you to expect me to explain how it works for you, especially given how complex it is and how much it varies from state to state, person to person, company to company, etc
I didn't ask you to explain the complexities of the healthcare system. I asked you one very simple, targeted question, which you absolutely should know the answer to in order to make the claims you are making.
I didn't ask you to explain the complexities of the healthcare system. I asked you one very simple, targeted question, which you absolutely should know the answer to in order to make the claims you are making.
i must have missed that as it seemed like it was a whole bunch of larping about over how you assumed our healthcare worked rather than how it actually works so i just glossed over it
what was the question?
i think violent criminals should be thrown in a hole and left to rot
i think people like you can be saved, but also don't think your stay should have been in the slightest bit comfortabel
So, you're for executing all violent criminals then? What's a violent crime? Murder? A baseball batting that that results in a month long hospital stay? A beating with fists and boots that results in a week long hospital stay? A punch up outside a bar that results in a couple of black eyes?
I don't think anybody is advocating for prisons to be comfortable. If you think they are, it's pretty clear that you have never spent any time in one.
I am.
And so expensive to run that it really is a last resort
i must have missed that as it seemed like it was a whole bunch of larping about over how you assumed our healthcare worked rather than how it actually works so i just glossed over it
what was the question?
Maybe if you read the words that I wrote instead of assuming, you wouldn't need to ask. Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups.
She advocated for deeming it necessary or she advocated for providing it to inmates once it was deemed necessary?
You understand the difference between the following positions, right?
- I advocate for providing all necessary medical care to inmates, which includes gender transition care if it is deemed medically necessary.
- I advocate for providing gender transition care to inmates, which I deem to be medically necessary care.
I edited my post to which you responded to clarify I was asking who de
So, you're for executing all violent criminals then? What's a violent crime? Murder? A punch up outside a bar that results in a month long hospital stay? A week long hospital stay? A black eye?
it's tough to say where to draw the line and i definitely feel like we're better served trying to figure out why we have so many violent offenders in the first place and trying to deal with that
but in the meantime i'd be perfectly fine with expanding the death penalty and removing a lot of the pussyfooting barriers we have in place that grind down the process to a halt via endless appeals - perhaps we can do that by requiring a higher burden of proof for a death sentence than a normal conviction - idk but it's definitely a problem where it cost several multiple more to kill a prisoner than it does to jail him for 50 years
this is probably exactly how it would go if we ever met in real life
Again, while I think that this is all ridiculous, it looks like it was the result of a court ruling and not some Democratic policy, so I'm struggling to see wtf it has to do with Kamala.
Edit: sorry, missed your second link, just reading now.
Ok, read it. Looks like she's sitting on the fence and being deliberately vague about what she means by "medically necessary". Count me as one of the people who definitely thinks that taxpayers shouldn't be paying for any elective medical procedures for inmat
Just be careful about your usage of the descriptor "elective." it means scheduled, not medically unnecessary. It's a very common, and harmful, misconception. I could need gall bladder surgery to save my life, but if I can schedule it for Friday it's elective.
Iglesias wants boobs. Prison doctor says nope, not medically necessary.
Iglesias finds an outside doctor that deems boobs are necessary for trans.
Iglesias sues to get government to pay.
Government pays.
So, we're afraid that people are going to rob banks just to go to prison and spend 8 years in a court battle which probably costs orders of magnitude more than the surgery, just to get a "free" operation?
Maybe if you read the words that I wrote instead of assuming, you wouldn't need to ask. Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups.
i thought this was answered with this
no different than for trans who want to transition - regular women can also attain a higher quality of life when they have the rack they've always dreamed of having
see above - it's already been determined to be "necessary" as it's already happening - she's outright said that she's advocated for it and is the reason it is happening already and wants to take to the national level
i'm sure plenty of inmates would also be happier if we gave them penile implants as well, would you not be enjoying a higher quality of life today if uncle sam didn't upgrade your dick in your last stay here?
for inmates and detainees, it should be the bare minimum of what is required
i've always held you in high regard and as a moderate, but in recent years i definitely feel like you're slipping into partisanship and beginning to lose connection with understanding what the other side believes
ie you mentioning appendicitis was an example of bad faithed posting - but i truly don't think you'd ever post in bad faith - so the only reasonable conclusion i can draw is that you fail to understand even the basics gyst of my beliefs nor do you both to attempt to understand it because
I am baffled as to how you thought my question about appendicitis was bad faith. You made a statement that seemed extreme to me and that was not limited to medical care related to gender. (I didn't need clarification about your position on medical care related to gender. It was obvious that you opposed the state paying for such care.) For that reason, I asked you about a medical condition unrelated to gender care. And you confirmed that the extreme position you stated was indeed your position. Done and done.
I disagree with you on whether inmates should have to pay for all their own medical care. I don't disagree because I am misunderstanding your perspective. I just disagree with your perspective, just as you apparently disagree with mine.
I am no more or less partisan than I was ten years ago. I don't care whether you or anyone else thinks I am liberal, moderate, or conservative. I am what I am. My views haven't changed all that much. Put whatever label on them you like.
Just be careful about your usage of the descriptor "elective." it means scheduled, not medically unnecessary. It's a very common, and harmful, misconception. I could need gall bladder surgery to save my life, but if I can schedule it for Friday it's elective.
Did not know that, thanks. I assumed they were antonyms in this context.
No. What is the question you think I asked? I literally quoted for you in that post, so I am confused as to why you think those Google search results have anything to do with it. My question did not include the term "quality of life", so I am somewhat confused here. Additionally, the second post you quoted was your post that my question was in response to.
Prison medical care is not insurance based. Costs are covered by jurisdiction and small* co-pays.
Spoiler
small can be as little as two bucks. however when prison wages are in the ten to fifty cent range (or no wages at all).... co-pays can be detrimental for prisoners seeking medical care.
To clarify for the hard of reading:
a). I think it's ridiculous that some of these procedures are being categorised as medically necessary.
b). I don't think it's ridiculous for a politician to advocate in general for providing medically necessary procedures to inmates.
Hence I've asked about a dozen times now whether Kamala had a hand in categorising these procedures as medically necessary, which nobody has even attempted to answer.
You start getting into, at the very least, very gray areas when you see that certain types of gender adorning care lower suicide rates exponentially for the referenced demographic.
So, we're afraid that people are going to rob banks just to go to prison and spend 8 years in a court battle which probably costs orders of magnitude more than the surgery, just to get a "free" operation?
no.
it's simply another indicator of the government faucet flowing out endless funds.
on the whole, trans inmate surgeries are not even a rounding error. just a irrelevant blip.
it's just wokes being woke and the faucet will keep flowing for everything else. progressives need to progressively spend more and set up more government programs in order to spend more.
I am baffled as to how you thought my question about appendicitis was bad faith. You made a statement that seemed extreme to me and that was not limited to medical care related to gender. (I didn't need clarification about your position on medical care related to gender. It was obvious that you opposed the state paying for such care.) For that reason, I asked you about a medical condition unrelated to gender care. And you confirmed that the extreme position you stated was indeed your positi
again, because clearly nobody was talking about appendicitis
nothing about my position is extreme - it's in fact mainstream to the point that kamala could actually lose to that buffoon largely because of it
I am no more or less partisan than I was ten years ago. I don't care whether you or anyone else thinks I am liberal, moderate, or conservative. I am what I am. My views haven't changed all that much. Put whatever label on them you like.
hard disagree with this - i would often view you as a voice of reason but it seems like now you're more focused "anything but trump" and it's hurt your perspective to the point where you can view my mainstream viewpoint as "extreme" simply because it's something that trump is campaigning hard upon
