Video by coach who says he makes $2K/month

If you’re going to play king rag poorly in a limped pot I can see just folding it to save headaches.

If anything i would be folding K7o to avoid looking even splashier than I am. If you are never limping, and 3 betting anywhere close to proper frequency, and betting/bluffing regularly, nobody will think youre a nit, no matter how many marginal folds you make. People notice the amount of money that you put into the pot, not the number of hands you do it with.

Also anytime someone says "odds to call" in a multiway spot i just hear "fish".

yes. Brainpower is a commodity at the table, and saving brainpower is valuable. Genuinely, i think people will see their winrate go up simply by folding hands they are breaking even with, and seeing how much more invested and focused they are on the hands remaining.

one of the easiest heuristics thats important to understand, the smaller the pot is, the less important the decision is. the difference between call and fold here is probably like 5 cents lol

just an incredibly irrelevant decision one way or the other, so would prob default to what tomark is saying

I would much rather complete 87o than K7o in the sb. Nothing good is going to come from calling with K7o.

If someone calls me out for folding a "family pot" I just make a joke like, "that hand wasn't even worth the extra $1" or "maybe I would call if it was suited" and people immediately forget about it.

I'd enthusiastically call with K7s but fold the offsuit version in most situations.

I guess if you have laser sharp soul reading skills maybe K7o is a slight winner but I'd rather use the opportunity to observe this hand from the bench.

Man is that the average hourly for 1/2? Started playing 1/3 recently and 80 hrs in, my hrly is much higher. Obv running hot but if it drops to that, i’m gonna have to move up or just stop playing.

Anyone care to share their hourly at comparable stakes? want to know what others numbers look like.

I think a limp here is endemic of other equivalent issues that add up quickly, like he gave an example of cold calling 75s for $10 that would be a more substantial error.

Also he mentions the rake in LA, which is a flat rake so almost half the pot is gone on the flop, which just generally makes limping out of the question. He plays in London which i believe is uncapped 10% or something, so similarly good reason to nit it up, which might be less relevant in vegas or the east coast or whatever

The general rule of thumb is the biggest winners in the casino might get 10 bb/hr.

People call in the SB in limped pots way too much. K7o is close though. K7o is a trap hand where you can get in trouble with either pair or trip kings, etc.

Kind of weird to be bragging about $15/hour or $2000/month part time. Pretty sure a decent player could beat 1/2 for way more than that, but probably would do better playing higher. bb/hr rules don't completely apply to low stakes. The guy making $15/hour is probably a nit, who doesn't make bad loose calls preflop, but doesn't play well postflop.

The 10BB/hr number has been bandied about for years. I tend to agree with Harrington who wrote that if a player is winning 10BB/hr consistently at a level, they will migrate to a higher level because they have the skill to beat that for more money. In addition, it refers to a time where rake and skill level was lower than it is today. I suspect no consistently playing 1/2 player is making 10BB/hr any longer.

You have to be more than decent for the level of play to be any type of winner. With a max rake of $6, the room is taking off $120-$180 an hour. There isn't much left for the other players. In business, the top company makes most of the profit. The second best makes a little bit and the third is about breakeven. Everyone else is losing. It works the same way in poker. If you're not the best or second best player at the table, you're going to be losing.

TBH, I'd be more inclined to listen to someone saying they are making $15/hr then someone who says that anyone with some skills can beat it for much more.

OP, those dollars you put in the SB call with crap like K7 don't seem like much, but they are destroying your winrate. Start folding them.

Yeh, torching $1 with K7o isn't the end of the world and there's some chance it comes K72 and someone limped KJ and is never folding ... but the people who don't even think about folding it are the same ones who see KTo in MP and snap call a $10 raise from EP etc. (or worse).

Sure, but that's an actual job where you need to get on a schedule and pretty much always be there at specific times.

For a part time job that you can go to whenever you want (or not) and leave whenever you want, it's very difficult to beat.

There's also the non-job aspect ... where you mostly enjoy it, and it's got a _much_ better ROI than playing Street Fighter 6 or golf.

There's a thread for that, but people don't tend to post when they've had bad weeks/months/years. After a decent amount of experience and looking at some other people's results privately ... I'd trust the rule of thumb over the long term (10bb/hr is v. good). I've seen a few people with 50bb/hr results over a couple of hundred hours, but they mostly played worse than I'd expected and they didn't move up (a few tried and got crushed).
Also seen a lot of people with tales of how amazing they are and how they won 5k from a few hours at a 1-2 table etc. who were terrible and you'd love to have at your table (as long as they don't run like god).

Also seen more than a few people who get non-trivial value from comps. ... Eg. casinos with a golf course, free food, etc.

tl;dr You say "Obv. running hot" but probably have no idea how hot. Like don't wonder if it might go down 20% or 50% but if might go down 200%.

"Average win rate" is a ill-conceived notion here. Nine-handed game, $5+$2 drop, 25 hands per hour, the average player is going to be a loser, losing $19.44/hour (-26 bb/100). Averaging the win rate of the winners is computing the area of the part of the bell curve that happens to be positive. What's the justification for throwing out the negative part of the curve?

Pedantic.

You can't really count the +2, as you get it back on average. There is 1 for tip, but you also get money per hour on your card. Unless it is California, at 1/2, a lot of the hands the pot is less than $50, so less than 5. The average player loses significantly less than $19/hour.

This really doesn't have that much to do with how much a winning player can average over a reasonably large number of hours, which was the earlier discussion.

The rake at 1/2 and 1/3 is similar to a $5/hour time charge. You aren't paying anywhere near $19/hour, at least if we don't count the money for the bad beat and high hand prizes.

For anyone attempting to guesstimate what is possible in Shy's LLSNL game, keep in mind his rake is 15% up to $15 (i.e. the worst rake in the known universe?).

Most U.S. players (the majority of posters in this forum) play in extremely enviable rake / promo conditions.

Gtemperyourlongtermexpectations,imoG

Lol ok i think the winningest player at his casino is probably making like $5/hr.

1/2NL live rake eats away at about half of your pot odds discount. If you complete the SB and go 5-way in a limped pot, then $1 goes to rake + $1 to promo + $1 to toke and you've paid $1 for a chance to win $7, so you need to win an average of ~14% of the pot.

1/3 and 2/5 have the quirk of having smaller SB discounts, so you don't end up playing any wider there either, so it's not until you're playing 5/T+ that you start making really wide SB completes.

K7o has about ~15% hot-and-cold equity against 4 opponents (assuming one opponent has ATC minus the top 5% of hands and the remainder have the top 20% of hands minus the top 5% of hands + 1 opponent), so you essentially need to realize 100% of your equity in that scenario.

I think some good benchmarks are that offsuit, unpaired hands realize ~67% of their equity in this spot (OOP in deep-stacked poker w/o initiative or range advantage), suited disconnected hands realize ~80%, suited (semi-)connected hands realize 100%, and paired hands just don't fold so I have no idea what the benchmark is.* Using those benchmarks, even K7s has 19% equity against the 5-player field above and realizes 80% of it's equity so it's a marginal call, whereas K2s is a marginal fold. In an unraked game with normal blind structure, you'd only need 10% share of the pot so K7o would nudge into pretty neutral EV territory if you follow those numbers religiously (but I strongly suspect it's still -EV in a 5-way pot, see note below.)

This is all before accounting for skill advantage, so maybe if you play with whales and/or crush your games you can assume more like 80% for offsuit / 100% for suited / 120% for suited (semi-)connected hands.

Unrelated, but OP needs to work on your thread title game.

*These numbers might be more exaggerated the more multiway you go. I'm somewhat bearish on baby suited cards realizing more of their equity MW, but maybe some suited broadway disconnected hands (K2s/Q6s) realize closer to 100% and offsuit disconnected hands realize closer to 80%, whereas offsuit, disconnected hands might be barely squeaking into the 60s. This might already be accounted for in how much better the hot-and-cold equity is for suited and connected hands the more MW you go, so putting extra weight on the EQR might be double counting that advantage.

Without going into the grueling detail of RA, i am completing with any Axs Kxs and decent amount of Qxs that i dont decide to raise with for whatever reason and im mostly folding everything else im not raising, including stuff like 54s, at least partially cuz its not worth my time, unless ive been card dead and im bored and wanna mix it up.

by deuceblocker k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzZeQ0dYBvU&

YouTube

How This ‘Boring’ Poker Strategy Nets Me $2K Every Month!

Playing part time and knows someone who makes $15/hour at 1/2. Not sure this is the right place to post it.

Video is about playing tight and how he folded K7o from the SB with several limpers at 1/2. I would call with that hand, partly not to look too nitty. At 1/3, unlike 1/2, you are not getting odds to really call much in a limped pot from the SB. That is why 2/3 is maybe better than 1/3.

Folding K7o in a multi-way limped pot seems completely fine, and I wish I had the discipline to do it even more than I do myself. Same goes for hands like A6o and A7o.

I don't agree. People play so badly in those multiway limped pots there is value to seeing a flop with most hands for half price.

I recently called the straddle 4-way from the BB with K5o. Flop was QhJd9h and was checked around. Turn was Td for QhJd9hTd. I knew I had the best hand or tied, as AK was really unlikely in a limped pot. I bet out and got two callers. River was 6c for QhJd9hTd6c. I bet fairly small because hard to see what would call that was losing. Get called by A8o, for low end of straight and draw on the turn to the nut straight. People will call with whatever if they have a hand or draw, so you can win a nice pot cheaply. If I limp behind from the SB with Kxo though, I am generally check/folding on a high high flop. However, sometimes it gets checked around and TPNK may be good.

so you think you should call with K5o because you can get like $50 when you hit the nuts and another guy hits the second nuts?

For the lolz (obviously not 666 ways)...

GTO wiz 100bb, BTN opens (robot sizes), SB folds, BB pure folds K5o.

Flop: QhJd9h, basically pure check for BB, BTN mixes like only a robot can (A8s is checking close to 50%, and A8o only checking a bit less -- Ad8d checks more and Ah8h checks a lot less).

Turn: QhJd9h Td, BB is still like 90% check (BTN has a decent amount of AK in range) mostly 33% pot betting Kx and 8x and a bunch of FD (much prefers betting unblocking pairs, Eg. K5 over KJ), BTN pure calls 8x.

River: QhJd9hTd 6c, BB splits 132%/60%/27% pot, for 60% pot BTN pure calls 8x (raises K8) and even for 132% pot BTN calls a lot of 8x (dislikes 88 and only calls half, and does almost pure fold A8s and mostly folds A8o) and also still raises every Kx.

One of the many examples of where GTO is tighter and looser than most people.

TBF though I've seen enough examples of bad players limping KQo/KJo and then lol stacking off 50bb+ on K52 vs. K5 that I'm not sure it's bad limping ... also too many people don't pay attn. to how/when money goes in that limping a bit more will give you a looser image even when you raise to 4x+.
Concentration is a real thing though, as is rake, and it seems bad training for 2-5 so I mostly don't.