Upcoming Gambling Regulation in Ireland
Hey folks, I'm posting here to raise awareness regarding the new proposed gambling regulation which will be of interest to any grinders/recreational players based in Ireland. The most meaningful stipulations regarding poker include the following:
1) Ban on inducements/vip schemes (decent chance this gets revised based on the wording in the debates so we might end up being all right here)
2) Max bets of €10 per game and max winnings of €3,000 per game (this basically makes it impossible to play poker for meaningful stakes if we are limited to €10 buyins).
Now they do offer an exception for sports betting and horse racing of course where there are no restrictions on bets and winnings. The justification for this is that sports betting and horse racing involve skill whereas casino games and poker do not involve any skill apparently. I can understand the motivation to set a limit for online slots but it is obviously not appropriate for poker and just pushes Irish players onto unregulated platforms.
This is going to get voted on in the Seanad (second parliamentary house) in three weeks and then finally in the Dail (first parliamentary house) a couple of weeks after. If worst comes to the worst, its basically GG for poker in Ireland by mid October. However there is a decent chance, poker does not end up being included in the 'relevant game' section which have restrictions if those voting can obtain an understanding that poker is a skill based game and that many people make a living from it in Ireland
If you are significantly impacted by this, you may wish to 'politely' contact the TD's and Senators who will be dong the voting in the coming weeks (
). It would be a very simple change to the bill to just not include online poker in the 'relevant game' section which stipulates these restrictions. Also, the bill only narrowly passed the first round of voting so it's not a done deal just yet.
Yeah the regulations in the uk just turned me into a drug addict
Hello all. First time poster.
Great letter AB.
I was thinking of writing my own letter about this. But I have rather a snippy tone about me and its off putting. Can you give feedback. I tend to write with sass.
Its rather simple and common sense. And it makes a few points not mentioned above.
Dia Dhuit,
My attention was again drawn to the recent supposed gambling regulation of 2022.
I say supposed because I suspect its a roundabout way to get a new generation of sports betting addicts ready to go.
Either that or the person who read it simply doesnt understand the first thing about the gambling industry and poker or genuinely has been corrupted into doing something I believe to be both deeply immoral and dangerous.
I am not the type of person you think of when you think of a recreational poker player. I'm young, I'm female and I have never been in a proper casino nor a bookmaker in my life.
The latter of which your regulation is likely to change in the next few years.
First let me tell you a little about poker and poker in Ireland. The vast majority of large tournaments in Ireland are not held in casinos with casino games like roulette or blackjack thankfully. They are held in hotels or convention centers. For example the Irish Poker Open which is the longest running poker tournament in Europe was held last year in the RDS. Before that it was held in hotels around the country. I had the pleasure of attending it both years without ever having to step foot in a casino nor a bookmakers.
Similarly I prefer to play poker on poker-room site only like pokerstars rather than sites that also offer casino games and sports betting like paddy power.
I fear that your regulation is about to change all of that.
Firstly why did I choose to play poker in this way and in these environments? There are a few reasons. Namely casinos tend to be more male dominated. Whereas card rooms/poker rooms tend to have a few more ladies. But mostly because its like to sit down to a tournament that you pay 50 euros for the entire night and that is it without having to walk by the flashy slots and roulette wheel and its nice to play on a site that doesnt flash mob you with sports betting oppertunities with manipulated statistitics that seem to offer an edge but firmly do not.
You see the poker community in Ireland has successfully tried to isolate poker which is a game of skill away from other forms of gambling namely to protect our community and the young men in particular within it. And if you dont think the gambling industry isnt aware of that you are naive. The sports betting sites now we have isolated the game away from them. That is why sites like paddy power have tried to add poker to their site. Why casinos still try to keep cash games. Poker doesnt bring in money for this industry so why do keep it going??
It is simple its in order to take a poker player out of the game and make him a sports betting man or a blackjack man where they have the edge and the games are highly addictive and do real social damage.
This regulation makes sports betting and bookies exempt. So companies like paddypower that offer poker on their site will have the advantage over the sites that just operate a poker room because half their business is far more predatory and is exempt from this regulation. They will run the sites like pokerstarts etc out and poker players will leave the Irish tradition of playing poker in businesses that only operate as card rooms. And they will get what they always wanted finally which is to use poker as a funnelling game to the sports betting arena for young people. (but i think you probably knew that didnt you?).
Sites like paddypower will end up being the only poker rooms to survive. Festivals that only provided poker in hotels will not survive the regulation. And all cash games and tournaments will be forced in to full casinos with roulette tables and blackjack and the rest. And finally the industry will get its wish and the average 18 yr old who came into play a PLO tournie will have to take his seat walking by a plethera of casino games after being given FREE complementary chips.
In November the Dublin poker festival is happening. Its being held as usual in a hotel not a casino. There will be no sports betting on the grounds nor any casino games. Mostly tournaments with one buy in for the night and some cash games. Which seems healthier to you?? Having to have all poker held in casinos and sports betting sites or having separate card rooms where casino games are not allowed?
Now i know in Dublin there are casinos that have weekly poker. But there has always been a respective separation of casino games and poker in particular online.
I feel you are merely going to regulate the card room only sites out of existence for the market to be taken by sports betting companies that dont have the majority of their business under your regulations. It is like an 18 yr old going to the pub for a pint and being served heroin.
This regulation will result in poker only businesses and festivals being merged into the wider sports betting and casino industry even more. It will have the opposite affect you say you want. So much so I being to suspect that is what you and the industry wants.
I had to write this letter to you because I believe you are about to do something dangerous and immoral. I would like to think you simply don't know what you are doing because you have never attended a poker festival like the Dublin Poker festival or the Irish Open. I think that is something you should do. Then go and play poker in a casino and tell me which you think is safer.
Just a thought.
Slán leat.
What do you think is it awful?? is it just .. a bit ****y??? Should i be more humble and friendly? You guys are smarter than me and know the industry better. So open to feedback or even if you think i should not write it at all. Is it just stupid??? You can say if its just stupid. Its just the idea that driving sites that are poker rooms only out of business for sites that have sports betting aswell to fall back on that is exempt and allowing them to take the market of poker players who might otherwise not have signed up for a sports betting site .. doesnt seem to me to be the best way to prevent gateway gambling issues and in fact so much so im suspicious. Did paddy power sponsor this bill? Wasn there a brown envelope .. lol (i wont say that dont worry but i did think it)
Also if you regulate poker like the roulette wheel... i know casinos will end up putting poker closer to the casino game tables ..
And I dont get why they want to close down the festivals and sites for poker that have NO casino games and NO sports betting at all? its a real niche thing that ireland has.. Its great our biggest poker festival is in a hotel with no casino and no sports betting. Why let sports betting companies and casinos take that over? Seems insanely dangerous to me.
When man busts out of the Irish Open main as it stands he doesnt walk by a dozen roulette tables on the way out. Or on the way in! If you put poker in the same space as sports betting or casino games... what do you think will happen??
And these poker only events and sites will not survive this regulation. The casinos and bookmakers WILL survive and be the only poker rooms in town the bookmakers are pretty much running the casinos now anyway the companies are so large.
thanks.
The above letter reads great IMO some good points made fair play.
Has anyone got any interaction with their representatives yet I'm afraid I'm just getting ignored I've sent a few dozen emails with no reply.
Seems like there isn't anything bad in this new regulation for poker players in Ireland apart from a curtailing on advertising for the gambling industry.
Is there something I am missing?
It depends if poker is a "relevant game" in the law. It would seem that if that is the case , €10 entry and €3000 winnings apply.
btw I assume Ireland loves its lawyers, because a gambling law that contains things like "amendment of section 8 of the pawnbrokers Act 1964" is def not for laymen.
It depends if poker is a "relevant game" in the law. It would seem that if that is the case , €10 entry and €3000 winnings apply.
btw I assume Ireland loves its lawyers, because a gambling law that contains things like "amendment of section 8 of the pawnbrokers Act 1964" is def not for laymen.
If I try to read that it will do more harm to my health than poker ever could. Seriously 210 pages.
It depends if poker is a "relevant game" in the law. It would seem that if that is the case , €10 entry and €3000 winnings apply.
btw I assume Ireland loves its lawyers, because a gambling law that contains things like "amendment of section 8 of the pawnbrokers Act 1964" is def not for laymen.
If I try to read that it will do more harm to my health than poker ever could. Seriously 210 pages.
This is probably one of the best uses currently for AI. Asked for a summary specifically of the bill related to poker, after which asked for more clarification on the entry/winnings.
Certainly! Let’s take a look at the Gambling Regulation Bill 2022 and ensure that all relevant aspects for poker are covered, including any key implications. Below are the important sections from the bill that may affect poker:
1. Licensing and Regulation (Part 2, Sections 13-15)
The bill establishes the Gambling Regulatory Authority of Ireland, which will oversee all forms of gambling, including poker. This authority will be responsible for issuing licenses, maintaining a register of licensees, and enforcing compliance.
Implication: Poker operators will need to obtain specific licenses, including for remote (online) and in-person gambling. This could introduce higher regulatory burdens and operational costs, particularly for small or new operators.
2. National Gambling Exclusion Register (Part 2, Chapter 3, Sections 44-49)
The bill creates a National Gambling Exclusion Register, allowing individuals to self-exclude from gambling activities, including poker.
Implication: Poker operators, especially online platforms, will be required to integrate exclusion mechanisms to ensure compliance. This may reduce the pool of players, particularly those vulnerable to problem gambling.
3. Maximum Entry Fees and Winnings (Schedule 3)
The maximum entry fee for a game (including poker) is capped at €10.
The maximum winnings per game are capped at €3,000.
Implication: This severely limits high-stakes poker games, which typically involve much higher entry fees and prize pools. It could make Ireland less attractive for large poker tournaments and professional players, shifting the focus to smaller, lower-stakes games.
4. Prohibition of Cheating (Part 4, Section 74)
Cheating in gambling activities, including poker, is explicitly prohibited. This covers the use of bots, collusion, and other forms of unfair play.
Implication: Poker operators will need to employ sophisticated monitoring systems to detect and prevent cheating, particularly in online poker, where bots and unfair algorithms are more common.
5. Advertising and Sponsorship Restrictions (Part 6, Sections 143-159)
The bill imposes strict regulations on advertising, including restrictions on inducements (e.g., bonuses) and sponsorship by gambling companies.
Implication: Poker platforms will face limitations on how they can market themselves, particularly in terms of offering welcome bonuses or promotions that entice players. Sponsorship of poker tournaments may also be more regulated, affecting the funding of large events.
6. Obligations Related to Children (Part 6, Sections 158-159)
The bill prohibits children (under 18 years) from participating in gambling or being employed in gambling activities.
Implication: Poker events and online platforms must ensure strict age verification processes. This is particularly important for online poker, where ensuring that no underage participants are involved will require stringent identity checks.
7. Social Impact Fund (Part 2, Chapter 4, Sections 50-57)
A Social Impact Fund will be established, financed by contributions from gambling licensees, to raise awareness of and combat compulsive gambling.
Implication: Poker operators will likely be required to contribute to this fund. This adds another layer of financial responsibility for operators, which may further increase the cost of running poker platforms or events in Ireland.
8. Suspension or Revocation of Licenses (Part 8, Sections 194-197)
Gambling licenses can be suspended or revoked if operators fail to comply with the Act’s regulations.
Implication: Poker operators who do not adhere to the rules on maximum winnings, exclusion lists, or advertising restrictions could face significant penalties, including losing their license to operate. This could cause reputational damage and financial losses.
9. Obligations for Remote Gambling (Online Poker) (Part 6, Sections 166-175)
Specific obligations apply to remote gambling licenses (which include online poker). Operators must maintain a register of account-holders, provide detailed terms and conditions to players, and establish robust mechanisms to prevent problem gambling and underage participation.
Implication: Online poker operators must be compliant with the new obligations, such as maintaining a register of players and preventing minors from opening accounts. The costs of implementing such systems may be higher for smaller operators.
10. Complaints and Dispute Resolution (Part 7, Sections 179-181)
The bill allows for a formal complaints procedure whereby players can raise concerns about gambling operators.
Implication: Poker players will have a clear route to escalate issues such as unfair gameplay or suspected cheating. Operators must be prepared to handle disputes transparently, or risk penalties from the regulator.
11. Data Protection and Privacy (Part 5, Sections 64-65)
The bill incorporates data protection obligations for poker operators, particularly online, to safeguard personal data and ensure privacy in line with GDPR.
Implication: Poker operators, especially online platforms, will need to ensure full compliance with data protection laws. Failure to do so may lead to heavy penalties.
Conclusion:
The Gambling Regulation Bill 2022 introduces strict regulations that will affect almost every aspect of poker in Ireland, from how games are licensed and marketed to how winnings are capped. High-stakes games and large tournaments may struggle under the €10 entry and €3,000 winnings cap, while online poker will face increased regulatory and data protection scrutiny. Moreover, advertising, sponsorships, and exclusion policies will reshape the way poker platforms operate, with added financial and compliance burdens.
For operators and players alike, adapting to these changes will be crucial to continuing to thrive in the regulated poker landscape.
Are we sure the entry and winning would apply to poker?
After carefully reviewing the Gambling Regulation Bill 2022, there are no explicit statements in the sections I've analyzed that confirm poker games are bound by the maximum entry fee (€10) and winnings (€3,000) limits set for "relevant games." However, poker could still fall under the broad category of "relevant games" unless specifically exempted.
The definition of "relevant game" under the bill seems to include games of skill or chance (or a mix of both) where participants can win money. Since poker involves both skill and chance, and winnings depend on player outcomes, it's likely included in this classification.
Key Considerations:
Relevant Games Definition: Poker fits the definition of "relevant game" because it's a game where participants pay to participate and can win prizes of money or value based on skill and chance. As such, it seems to be subject to the same caps on entry fees and winnings.
No Explicit Poker Exemption: The document does not explicitly exempt poker from the €10 entry fee and €3,000 maximum winnings, making it reasonable to assume these limits apply unless specific clarification is provided.
Impact on Poker: If these limits apply to poker, it would severely constrain professional poker tournaments and high-stakes games in Ireland. Entry fees are typically much higher in professional events, and prize pools regularly exceed €3,000.
Thus, unless the regulator explicitly excludes poker from these constraints, it will likely be subject to the same financial limitations as other gambling games in Ireland.
If you want more concrete confirmation, a legal expert specializing in gambling regulation would be the best resource for detailed interpretation.
WD, but probably not what those affected wanted to hear.
All the money spent on legal fees for this and they still could not make the key information explicitly clear. Was it them that oversaw that bike shed and the security Hut?
Yes, as things stand the limits apply to poker. There is a provision however for the regulator to change the limits if they think it is appropriate which hopefully they will. I'd say it will be well into 2025 before any changes are made.
Yes, as things stand the limits apply to poker. There is a provision however for the regulator to change the limits if they think it is appropriate which hopefully they will. I'd say it will be well into 2025 before any changes are made.
Thanks for clearing that up, hopefully sense becomes common but at least there is still a chance.
The problem is that poker doesn't appear as a separate activity in the legislation and there only appears to be the power to alter the stakes/winnings for "relevant games" which means slots, blackjack etc
Oh, well, I guess poker in Dublin in March is out :(
It's a dose that it's all lumped in together. Casino games / slots are far more of an issue than sports betting ever will be. And there's plenty of studies to show those hooked on gambling would have gotten hooked on something else either way i.e. there's an underlying reason or condition for the addiction in the 1st place. An initial legislation to force online and brick and mortar books to separate sports betting and casino games would have given a far better overall picture - those most at risk would mostly use the latter. The way things are going it'll be like the UK, gamble until you are broke but hammer and vilify anyone trying to withdraw any sort of decent sum.
"PokerNews reported that the world poker federation aided by pokerstars was able to get poker officially recognised as a mind sport (like chess or esports). The International Mind Sport association (IMSA) passed this on the 18/11/24".
I snipped this from the thread on poker in Australia. I want to thank DAMMO_23 for posting it.
Surely this has to help the politicians in separating poker from slots and blackjack.
I received an email from GG today, and I believe we should all make the effort to contact our local representatives, as mentioned in the email below:
---
Dear player,
As you may know, the Gambling Regulation Bill 2022 is currently making its way through the Irish legislature and is likely to be enacted soon. It is due to be discussed in the Seanad in the coming weeks.
At present, poker is grouped with other gambling games, such as slots and casino games, in the proposed legislation. If this remains
Bump
GG trying to enlist players in order to lobby politicians that poker should be treated as a skill game, has to be at the top 3 of the joke of the month.
In online betting they are saving you.
Interface manipulation is out of control.
Bookies have become smarter... why show a line that has potential to win at all?
They watch you like a hawk and know just how to feed you that trash spread that will lose and once your locked in any bet to remotely hedge is "locked"...
Ever notice how all bets go through a mini "processing phase" before being accepted or readjusted for a quick line change then place it again....
It's hard enough picking the winning team....it's even harder when greedy ******s are using line and interface manipulation for feed you **** lines to ensure you place a losing bet.
Analyze the game know what bets will lose and feed it to them only.... they become wealthier while you donate.
Government has to step in.,, I don't blame them. Greedy bastards... it's never enough for them...
In online betting they are saving you.
Interface manipulation is out of control.
Bookies have become smarter... why show a line that has potential to win at all?
They watch you like a hawk and know just how to feed you that trash spread that will lose and once your locked in any bet to remotely hedge is "locked"...
Ever notice how all bets go through a mini "processing phase" before being accepted or readjusted for a quick line change then place it again....
It's hard enough picking the winning team
This Bill does not affect sportsbetting. This affects poker and casino games and the fact that our government is treating poker the same as casino games. This also affects live games not just online.
Any news on this, when is the vote happening on this gambling act?
I don't see these limits being enacted after a bit of revision tbh.
So it got signed 23rd October. When's it gonna be enacted.
Does the €10 max bet still apply? (To poker)
I don't see this happening, its gonna kill all the irish festivals...
Poker will be excluded most likely from the regulation
So it got signed 23rd October. When's it gonna be enacted.
Does the €10 max bet still apply? (To poker)
I don't see this happening, its gonna kill all the irish festivals...
Poker will be excluded most likely from the regulation
Not sure but sometime in 2025.
To my knowledge yes.
Definitely will hurt live poker.
Hope so, time will tell.
Just giving a bit of an update on this. The bad news is that the bill passed relatively unchanged as far as poker is concerned and essentially makes the game untenable. The good news is that because it takes forever for politicians to do anything in this country it will probably be a long time before it comes into effect. I'd expect towards the end of this year or into 2026.
There is also the chance the regulator will bring in more appropriate limits. Under the bill, they have the power to do so. I've argued that the current limits don't go far enough for slots and are completely unworkable for poker. I've sent them calculations of how much a punter will lose on slots compared to poker (€180+ on slots, €2 on poker). I think the problem is that there was little to no thought put into the limits prior to the bill and the legislators don't want to be seen to be watering down the legislation in any way. The consequence of this is that, Irish poker players will be forced onto dodgy platforms if they want to continue playing. Horse racing and sports betting are virtually unaffected with this bill apart from advertising curtailments which arguable don't go far enough.
If this is important to you, you could write to the regulator as I have done (GRAI@justice.ie) and make your case. There have been senior Garda officials who have also criticized the limits saying they will struggle to deal with black market operators. So, it's not just the the gambling industry and random poker players who are writing in. I have no idea how receptive they will but I don't think it is reasonable for them not to make an effort by bringing in consultants who can analyse the various games based on data and recommend what is appropriate.
Thanks for the update.
