Overpair vs unknown check/raise

What's your bb cold call range here? Then figure out your MDF on this flop. You presumably have 99 if you are calling here with JJ so his line is weird.

I wouldn't call anything pre Vs 3b, having not vpiped. You should have 4b and probably called if he shoved.

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The $6 open from HJ and CO flat call look weak. V could be squeezing wide as a result, maybe especially when he takes this somewhat smallish $25 sizing from OOP. Definitely 4B'ing with JJ here, to $80-$85, to get this heads up and IP.

If V is good, he may be checking range from OOP and multi-way, and he could have a fair number of check raises, not all super thick value, some of which are going to be check raise give-ups with draws like 87s, 54s, or A5s with some BD BS going on.

When we flat call pre, then stab the flop, it could look fishy, and V may just be attacking your bet from the field, especially when you cold call the 3B pre, collapsing your range to a lot of small-middling pairs that want to set-mine, and Broadway combos that might occasionally stab here. But your bet is pretty big, which should cut down on your bluffs, and on his x/r frequency.

So... I see conflicting factors here. Our hand is under-repped, we have a big over-pair, this is a board that's more likely to hit our range than his, and we shouldn't have very many if any bluffs here, betting multi-way, into the two pre flop aggressors, for almost 2/3 pot.

He could be check raising bigger PP's for value, and may show up with 99, maybe 66 at some lower frequency, and occasionally maybe 33, given the small open size from HJ. But then again, it's such a disconnected board, I'd think he wouldn't feel the need to check raise a set here, and his bigger PP's should be concerned you flopped a set.

Also, his check raise size is a little small. When he 3B's small pre, and then check-raises small, I'm somewhat inclined to think he's got more bluffs in his range.

It's a tough spot because of the weird pre-flop action. The only value hand we beat is TT. Doubtful he'd check raise a draw when you bet 2/3 pot, but if he thinks you might be stabbing with two overs, he might.

I don't know what worse hands call if we jam, other than maybe TT, but I think a jam could get him to release some better hands. It just seems like such a punt to turn JJ into a bluff here. It also feels sketchy to flat call when he'll only have 3/4 of a PSB behind, which he's probably stuffing in on the turn if we don't jam.

I think it's a jam or fold spot, and if we play our hand this way to this point, we just have to go with it, and stick the rest in. I guess I like that we have two of the suits on board, taking away some of his outs if he's calling off with some suited draw that could pick up the BDFD on the turn, like 87cc or 54hh.

I should add: Vs hud is about 25/15/1. So his range here from SB should be fairly strong - no 56s type stuff.

If his 3b% is really 1% then you can happily fold pre, or if you’re feeling adventurous then set mine for stacks.

But don’t bet flop when his range is KK+.

How can you say V is unknown, and then estimate his stats this way? How long have you been playing with him?

I'm leery of making too many assumptions about V's being nitty based on a short period of observation, when it may be the case that they've just been completely card dead. It's much easier to see who's loose than it is to tell for sure who's tight.

I think it's an easy fold - granted we're highly exploitable bet/folding a board like this, but I don't think he's x/r essentially for stacks without better hands. The way you describe him it sounds like he won't overplay hands like A9/88 here.

I'm ok with just flatting preflop. It's a largish sizing (at least in terms of $) OOP from the blinds (where most are just happy to see a cheap flop). We're cool with inviting a fish along. Perhaps shorter I'd aim to commit.

I'd probably bet smaller on such a dry board.

And I'd probably make a nitty fold on a non-semi bluffy board to the check/raise.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Calling with JJ in the BB after an UTG raise and an SB 3-bet feels like a hugely -EV play.

His range pre should be very tight and narrow per his read. I'm calling with setmining in mind though. As played just fold to the c/r.

You're going to have to show your math if you think going to a flop with fish with JJ is somehow a losing play overall (which isn't remotely the same thing as arguing that a reraise is more profitable, which I think is very fair to argue).

Gclueless-EVnoobG

3bet/fold and flatting pre are fine vs. this guy. As played, fold.

Curious what sort of range people who say hero should fold are assigning to V.

Is V 3B'ing out of the SB with 33/66? Is he 3B'ing 96 or 63? Is V going to x/r this flop with 99, or QQ+?

Like, seriously, what is V repping here, that wants to raise pre, and go for a x/r on this flop, multi-way, facing a 2/3 pot from the BB?

Result:

As long as the two fishes are not shortstack I "always" call pre, don't see any reason to 4bet or fold pre just judging from the info in op.

Flop I bet 30.

As played at the table I probably mostly fold vs the c/r, unless I saw something weird from villain before.

But would still kinda like call flop and then call every non A turn, because he's line doesn't make much sense to me.

I think our disconnect is that you're treating this as a standard 3bet pot whereas I'm not. The original open is a lol minraise which 99% of the time is someone being a goofball. This isn't your typical 5x raise + call followed by your typical 20x raise (where arguing for a fold with JJ would now be quite reasonable).

GcluelessgoofballraisingnoobG

Really just 99+. He squeezed preflop - I mean you would need him to x/r here with AK,AQ,AJ,TT,etc to make up for the better hands he could have. I also think especially at low stakes people play more straightforward multiway - if he's an aggro maniac then we don't think twice and rip it in, but you need him bluff raising here a lot to make up for the times he has it.

Not too far off what I suspected. Figured this was some AX combo entitlement tilt-spaz.

Respectfully, I think you're giving low stakes players too much credit.

This x/r smells fishy AF to me.