1/2/10: Tough river decision with KK

4b to ~380.
CB 20%.
Jam turn.

I understand the flop call, but what are you waiting for on the turn? Get the money in before draws brick.

In realtime, I felt he would fold QQ if I made it $380, and it would suck to get jammed on.

I wasn’t afraid of any draws really because his range felt like QQ/AA and mayyybe AK, so I continued playing cautious on turn.

How do I get over the too cautious mindset? Been playing 15+ years pro and I still slip in these spots.

Normally I 4bet pre, even though that's a big 3bet, but I guess you think this guy is pretty tight if you put him on QQ+? It is his straddle; maybe he is just defending/fighting for it? Any reads? How does he see you? Do you raise a lot?

I probably raise that little flop bet or the turn. If he re-raises, you can get away from it (depending on player type). Now that you are here so cheap, I think you have to call the river, even though the A sucks.

PRE - even this deep, I'd still 4B. We can go smaller, like $325-$350, and go to the flop with around 1 SPR.

The problem with flatting pre is that we're playing a guessing game post flop, and possibly playing face up if we start raising.

FLOP - flatting here seems fine, though I wouldn't mind a raise, to take control of the pot.

TURN - I think I just stick it in here. V's bet size is BS, and there will be so many action killing river cards.

RIVER - ugh. All his NFD's just ran into top pair, and AJ made 2P. I hate folding getting over 4:1, but I don't think many V's are going to keep betting worse hands for value here. We'd be bluff catching against exactly QQ? Seems like QQ would bet bigger on flop and turn.

Any reads on V would be helpful. But I think we can mostly just fold here.

Why is the game this deep stacked at only 1/2?

A read would help. Against a laggy V it’s is an easy call. The small river bet could be a busted flush draw, JT, JQ, QQ. Against an unknown, you probably want to fold. Gross spot getting 4:1. I’m always calling because I do not need to earn money playing poker.

Embrace the variance in the rest of your life.

$500 max and he was the only other deep stack at the table

Reads and positions matter, but if his 3b range is any wider than 5% I’m shoving.

It can’t really be a mistake to shove regardless of how tight his range is (assuming he has at least all of QQ and AK) so there’d have to be a compelling reason for me to not go that route.

Postflop’s whatever. Super unlikely you’re ahead on the river but I made the mistake of incorrectly folding in this spot once literally 15 years ago and given the odds, it’s haunted me ever since.

I liked it right up until H didn't jam turn. We have position; otherwise, sure 5! rip it. Or to 350 w/e and let them 6!

1-2 ->10 is gross.

Study.

If you’re certain something’s the right play, then that forecloses all the psychological stuff.

When was the last time you felt angst about open folding KJo UTG? You know what to do so your feelings don’t get involved.

If you’ve been playing for 15+ years and still have major blind spots in high leverage situations, then it might be time to concede that you’re doing more harm than good by trying to own your opponents and might want to bone up on a solid style that’s maybe missing out on some EV in your games but 1) will still crush and 2) will put your feet on solid ground so you can progress as a player.

You can always come back to the exploitative style later and you’ll be in much better shape to understand what solid play looks like, who’s deviating from it and how and when, and what the counterexploit is.

Preflop is interesting - probably not a great deal of EV difference at this level and in these positions between (1) shove, (2) click back/call (my choice), (3) click back/fold (probably the least satisfactory?) and (4) call. It's only 100BB deep with the straddle, if you're uncomfortable then get out of the game.

Flop call is fine. I would definitely jam turn.

As played the pot is just under 1100, 200 to call and there has to be enough chance this is a block with QQ or a bluff to justify a call, but of course you mostly lose.

Okay, misread HH, didn’t realize V was the straddler and we were IP. Preflop flat is completely fine, if even the majority play.

No way a basic rando shows up here with JT or QJ, and the only logical draw that didn't hit something is KhQh--and that's not an auto 3-bet preflop.

It feels like a fold.

Yeah, but you've got to be right that you're beat, ~80% of the time. For 20 more straddles, closing the action, ugh, make the call and see an Ace.

Consider it penance for not jamming turn.

But seriously, there's enough random stuff randoms do, that it is a titanic mistake to fold this if they're doing this with something you beat. Ranging your opponent's potential holdings would be useful.

Oh, and I don't know if this will be applicable, but would folding this inspire other players to start bluffing scare cards at you?

AP I think you have to call here. Running into AKhh seems likely.

So two things

1) so youre afraid of AA but youre presumably calling down on Q or lower boards and getting scared on A high boards? It just seems like a longer road to the same result

2) your username is literally 6 bet fold, how can you 6 bet fold if you wont even 4 bet the second nuts?!?!??