The "LOLCANADA" thread...again

Immigration to Norway has increased over the last decades, beginning in the early 1990s. In 1992, the immigrant population in Norway was 183,000 individuals, representing 4.3% of the total population, and net migration that year was 9,105 people. In 2012, net migration peaked, as 48,714 people came to the country. Since 2013, net migration has decreased. In 2016, net migration was 27,778

the double gdp per person is the problem. they have manageable numbers so only take the best. Thier gdp per person grows. ours shrinks. They get the creame of the crop. we get wage slaves

And in 2024 it is 931,000 people representing 16.8%. Sure sounds like a LOT of immigration growth since then, kinda like Canada.

Honestly your posts just look like generic anti-immigrant rhetoric (wage-slaves, “not people in India” etc) was some quickly googled statistics slapped on.

by that logic even your precious Justin is anti immigration. I brought up norway because I know they have lots of immigration.... . you proceeded to pull up numbers I already knew but there's a huge difference in letting 30k qualified vs 400k indian students in debt. When you only have 30k immigrants a year instead of 400k its much easier to get what you need.... There's not 400k quality immigrants trying to get into Canada. Its also nice when the majority of your immigrants share similar values as the vast majority of them are from the eu . Its 33% less per population and its on a much smaller scale... its not even comparable. you cant compare a country by percentage when its 30k vs 400k. One is a much more exclusive entry and can demand much better immigrants (also just a much better country)

uh buddy, Canada is 8 times the size of Norway by population, obviously you should be comparing PER CAPITA numbers not absolute. And do apples to apples, student visas are very very different from permanent residents, like international students can be thought of as an economic export that bring in huge tuition dollars. And remember 365k immigration leads to population DECLINE to tossing around 400k like it’s some big scary number is silly.

And why this obsession with India?

ahhhh this is it right? All you’re talking about India and low quality immigrants is because these non-white immigrants don’t “share values”.

Tell us, what values are you so mad about at Indian immigrants?

The problem is the Universities and I assume you could speak to the accuracy of my statement more than me is the fact they rely on this tuition $$$ from foreign students. Now if an Indian Student comes to Canada to study medicine or nursing or even trade school and plans to stay here and become doctors, nurses and plumbers but if they just get their education and leave and take the spot of a CDN of any color I have an issue with that .

This week they released that 5.5 million CDN's do not have a family doctor. I took your advice and signed up for a doctor or Nurse Practitioner . I was at the pharmacy to book my flu shot which surprised me took a week. In Alberta you could walk into any pharmacy and get one in 5 minutes . I asked the pharmacist how long the wait was and she told me no one knows I asked years and she said were did you come from and when I told her Alberta she said you should have found a way to keep your Alberta Health Care .
So the concept of preventative healthcare and getting a physical regularly is gone

I assume you got confused based on Ford’s symbolic messaging about doctors the other day. Of Canadas 17 medical schools, only 5 even accept international students, and those are small numbers from various special programs.

I teach tonnes of prospective engineers, that is a program that absolutely does take international students. But it isn’t a “problem” that they pay massive tuition and those dollars support quality education for domestic students. It’s an export. It helps Canada. It brings in money they can use. And international student acceptance doesn’t displace domestic students. Like right now with decline international enrollment my university has to make a lot of CUTS that negatively impact domestic students. I don’t work in trades, but my understanding is that Canada struggles to find enough people to work in trades and immigration brings in people who get trained and can now go work in Canada in in demand fields.

So no I don’t think you’ve articulated a problem yet. Try try again!

That is why I said you could speak to this better than me as what the current situation is . What your saying seems very logical to me. I would assume you would defer to me more when it comes to Home building 😀

Thanks for the input .

omg i know dude... that's the point. the bigger you are the more you have to lower your standards to reach the same percentage

lol wat. Buddy, you gotta work per capita, this is just absolute basic for comparing countries. Like we have a way bigger gdp than Norway and a way smaller gdp than the us, but the important thing is to compare the per capita gdp. Of course you’ve provided exactly zero evidence that Norway (why Norway again of all the dozens of comparison countries?) has some way better immigration and why on earth it would magically be better just because they are a much smaller country. Do you think the US has way way worse quality immigrants because they immigrate millions more than Canada??? So silly.

Is the explanation just that you don’t like Indians, since you keep bringing them up?

I didn’t check the stats much but the problem ain’t 370k permanent immigrants , it’s the addition of 600k more through temporary workers and foreign students that are around 300k each on top of the permanent immigrants …..

You say it’s great liberals did decide to change their targets but we know for years their target was too high and they didn’t do anything about it .
Why ? It’s Not ideology that infinite immigration are always good ?

as Montreal said the foreign students are the problem not the standard immigration target. And they happen to be majority Indian and unskilled. Its not racist to not want poor non contributing immigrants in your country from vastly different cultures its just common sense

Your confusing things. International students aren’t poor. Their families pay tens of thousands of dollars a semester to be here, and this money goes a long way to supporting domestic students at chronically underfunded universities. Foreign students are an export, an injection of cash from other countries into Canada. And these students are literally training to be skilled workers, calling them unskilled is silly.

Probably you are conflating this with the temporary foreign worker program which IS low skill and poor, but precisely there to do low skill jobs not even poor low skill people in Canada want to do like picking strawberries or canning fish.

And in neither program is India a majority of the people in the program. It is the largest country among many, but nowhere close to half.

why do you think the most international students are from india? If they were coming for Canadian schools people from all over the world would be coming at even amounts. but its almost exclusively from very poor countries willing to pay a vig for a chance to stay in the country. It has nothing to do with getting a good education they could get it locally for 1/80th the price. They come here to get jobs and stay in canada. so we have to include foreign students as immigrants .

Ya a small minority of them pay the money out of pocket but alot take loans with the plan to get a job here so they can afford the loans by getting a job here essentially bringing in nothing because they pay for schooling by contributing to wage suppression and use money made in Canada.

Foreign students are a poor import the only one who gains from it is the university's bottom line. If they need foreign students to survive that's a horrible long term system and it should be allowed to collapse so we can rebuild it. Why do we have to take less desirable immigrants to make the university's money? let them do school locally then apply its just greed selling out

Sigh. India is a big English speaking country in the commonwealth, it makes lots of sense they would be more than some smaller non English/french speaking country.

Getting a Canadian degree (or American or Australian etc) makes you way way more competitive in Canada or back in India or around the world. For developing countries, a degree from a prestigious first world university just opens doors. Some might have a long term plan to immigrate to Canada, but many don’t, they just want to get a higher quality of life back in their home countries.

After an international student gets a degree, they are now by definition highly skilled. You were JUST complaining about low skill. Some can apply for a work permit after graduation, but that is NOT the same as permanent residency, and it’s a minority who are staying long term and those people are great for Canada on balance given their high training in Canadian universities.

International student tuition is insanely high, an injection of cash into the economy that doesn’t “just” benefit the university, but the domestic students at the university, all the staff employed by the university, the local economy, etc. again, it’s an export and good for the economy much like exporting other services is.

As for loans, yes some families spend all their money on the hope of their kids getting a Canadian education, but international students can’t easily access large credit from Canada. It’s their families in their home countries going into debt. Again no negative to Canada.

It’s not just you are naive on the details, your ultimate conclusion about international students being bad for Canada is just wrong. They are great.

Stats Can says 1/2 of all international students are from India and China and Uke is right they pay big bucks to study here. Also you do realize provincial and federal student loans are restricted to domestic students . Im all for all these doctors and nurses staying in Canada after graduating that is a good thing . Id gladly go see a Indian or Chinese immigrant doctor

Without International Students tuition would go up for domestic students

How many are becoming doctors tho? I know in my city the good university has way less int students then the community college which is like 80% int students now. I knew a guy coming here to be a nurse but never a doctor. usually its a lot of simple two year courses they could surely learn in india. I know they can't take loans in Canada. They take them in India and work here to pay for it since a job here is worth more then anyjob back home They are also scammed quite a bit about what they are walking into and most regret it but lets just ignore that it doesn't sound very "racist"
I worked with a lot on a personal level uke just sees them from his Toronto highrise desk

The money they bring into Canada goes to the corporations not Canadians maybe a discount in tuition fees

Do you think indian families are paying for their sons and daughters to come to Canada to study humanities ? do you think indian banks are giving them unsecured loans when they move out of the country lol wtf?

there are 65k indians studying to become physicians in Canada, it's an insane number and a blessing for your country (if you don't **** up and make them leave that is)

https://www.shiksha.com/studyabroad/mbbs....

What corporation? Tuition can be 50k plus per year for an undergrad at big schools. How exactly is that money going to corporations not Canadians? This is why I say it’s an export, Canada gets tonnes of money and that pays for jobs, makes better experiences for domestic students, etc. You just sound profoundly ignorant on every single post you make on this topic.

And yes, my job is literally teaching future engineers and scientists, including a good chunk of international students. I train them to be competitive here in Canada (or elsewhere) after they get their four year degree. I don’t know where the Toronto high rise desk came from (although I was once a professor in Toronto and had a desk in a high rise) or why it is relevant.

its well documented how Indian recruiters are scamming them into low end diploma mills

Have you noticed that each post of yours doesn’t actually respond to any of the questions raised and keeps seeming to slip to new issues without really contending any of the points I raised? I have.

I don’t know what personal assumptions you think are being made here, but I’m pretty upfront ITT that I work as a professor and so actually know what I’m talking when it comes to international students.

You ask very general questions that you already know the answer for or you randomly bring up nitpicked extremes that are not worth my time?

Lets go over your last "question"

"The money they bring into Canada goes to the corporations not Canadians maybe a discount in tuition fees"

"What corporation?"

I am clearly talking about wage suppression and the company's that benefit you want me to name them? you know what they are what's the point? ok sure buddy

Walmart
tim hortins.
Wendy's wow so worth my time!

"Tuition can be 50k plus per year for an undergrad at big schools. How exactly is that money going to corporations not Canadians?"

see this is not a question its just you saying a nit picked fact while ignoring that the average college is no where near 50k a year but closer to 10k. something they can easily make back working while in school . A quick google search shows this "Tuition fees for community colleges in Canada are usually between CAD 10,000 and CAD 15,000 per year for a foreign student. You bringing up 50k which is the very high end is a perfect example of you being bad faith and why I ignore your "questions" The majority of foreign students are in community college / diploma mills

but since were on the subject ill explain my thought process of why they don't benefit us short term. They come here bring their 10-15k and put it into the colleges which as you said helps lower tuition fees but also lowers the quality so I don't even know if that's a good tradeoff. The majority of their money is going to the colleges profits and the rich and not helping average Canadians . They are not non profit organizations but it is money into Canada. The positive side is really the 8 billion in tax revenue so that's the upside but that's about it.

So we agree they bring in 8 bil a year. However what I'm saying is a lot of that is just going into corporate profits through wage suppression. A person comes here with 10-20k and put that into Canada. They get a job at Walmart and make 10-20k a year. 1. It lowers the overall wages of Canadians and now Walmart does not have to pay a wage a Canadian is willing to work for. This also surely makes more people collect government checks because there is not a huge difference from being broke on minimum wage or unemployment checks. They bring in their 15k but they work these jobs for years or forever and sustain easily. The corporations makes way more then 8 billion in profit and we don't see a dime.

The people paying 50k a year to be doctors are clearly not the problem but they are a small slice of the pie. your really bad faith suggesting they are paying 50k a year ? **** off what world do you live in its so over the average and obviously pushing your agenda and why I don't really engage with you this is the only one you get. I actually worked one of those jobs for a bit during covid and got to know a lot of them as friends. They are very self sufficient with their local minimum wage jobs. outside of a bit of money they bring it in first they ain't bringing in ****. Most even send money back home.

The fact it is so obvious were not talking about the students bringing in 50k a year but you still use it as a point is very irritating. is it so hard for you to believe that some foreign students are good for Canada and some are bad? No ones complaining about the guys studying to be doctors and high demand jobs for **** sakes. and you know that. Thats why I single out the Indians who are the biggest abusers of the system and not the rich Chinese kids etc who clearly are not getting day jobs to pay for their entire school year. but na you have to paint me as a racist

Wait IF an immigrant by his presence keeps wages down, that benefits consumers of the goods/services produced by that input as well, prices would otherwise be higher.

How much the benefit accrues to the employer vs how much it accrues to consumers depends on many things but the main one is the market power of the employer, which means that in highly competitive sectors like retail or agriculture or fast food the benefit of lower wages goes mainly to consumers.

So you have canadians who could have worked there being penalized vs consumers who pay less than what they would otherwise have to pay, when immigrants arrive and work in highly competitive sectors.

When they work for pseudo-monopolies (say water utilities) the gains go mostly to the employer.

No, the 50k a year is for an undergrad, not a doctor. And notice the bolded: " Tuition can be 50k plus per year for an undergrad at big schools. That is very clearly being shown as the upper end, not the average, to see if your point can stand in this scenario (and clearly it couldn't). While I've taught at big institutions in the past, my smaller institution now is more like 30k. It's still INCREDIABLY expensive and brings in a huge amount of tuition dollars that are injected into the country providing jobs and better education for domestic students. Win. Win. Win.

I really don't see international students, even those at low cost community colleges, working low wage jobs in the local area as particularly problematic or remotely justifying all your previous rhetoric. Firstly, other than a stint during the pandemic when canada was desperate for low wage workers in such jobs, international students are capped in hours at 20 or 24 hours a week. But focusing on international students here seems really misplaced when there are entire programs like the temporary foreign workers program to hire low wage unskilled labour because of a general shortage of such things. That program you can certainly put wage suppression as a negative of it (along with big positives) but to come after international students who are a huge positive bringing in a massive inflow of money into canada and being trained to be highly skilled and capable of contributing to our skilled economy or leaving back to their home countries and making economic connections around the world seems silly. It's getting mad at the baby because it slashed in the bath. If you are really mad about big corporations having low wages, I think you should blame politicians not raising minimum wage laws, not international students.

The funny part is you haven't managed to even state the conventional and much more legitimate problem with international student numbers yet, instead focusing on much sillier negatives.

Well that's how it should work. Instead we see record profits. They are not working for water utilities they work for us based companys