How to play AQs in a funky straddled and blind raised pot?

Call is good. Now shove.

Agree with this. If you run into it here, that's pretty unlucky.

Fine AP, shoving now. BB limp is all that concerns me.

Thanks guys, yes I also thought jamming must be a good option here. Unless someone is slow-playing, the only range I need to be worried about is the hijack, and I figured as a strong player he's going to be isolating/going after the dead money pretty wide here.

Is there anything to be said for opening for perhaps $120 instead of calling the straddle with the intention of backraising? I imagine it's quite difficult to work out the EV of each option; I don't know of any preflop solver that could handle such input.

***REVEAL***

After some consideration, I did indeed shove for $669. UTG+1 folded, hijack tanked for a long time and eventually folded, later stating that he had AKo. Button tank-folded QTo, and the BB called for $264 more. The board was Q-high by the river, and the button would have won it if he called, as he would have made two pair. I showed the AQ and the BB ragequit the game after indicating that I didn't even need to hit the Q to win (she had been having a tough night).

Anything other than LRR (or even overlimp/reraising) in this type of game is moronic, imo. So I would start off with a limp to begin with regardless, and of course do it once the out-of-turn blind raise is out there to see what happens.

Best player in the city just saw two guys limp for $6 when they knew a massive $55 raise was coming and yet he raises anyways. That should be pretty concerning. He's also raising very early (he's got *six* players still to react behind him). We think he's putting in 1/2 - 1/5 of stacks with worse / to "see where he's at"? ETA: Was out plan to get the "best player in the city" to fold a monster? Was that expected?

GIfold,butIfoldrealeasyG

Yes it definitely felt that just calling the straddle was the best option. But I wonder if putting in a raise to $120 or so might have been higher EV? As it turned out, it would have gone badly, because the hijack would have 3bet me to $300 or so, and then I'm in a difficult spot with AQs - but that's beside the point of what the EV is for me at my first decision point.

I wasn't expecting to see a raise and had been hoping that there would be only callers. The hijack raise to $120 and two subsequent callers mean that instead of raising, I had to jam - which to be honest, was not totally comfortable - AQs is probably the weakest hand I do this with. But at the end of the day I decided that the hijack's range was the only one I had to be truly concerned about, and I was certain he would be isolating wide enough that AQs should be doing well against that range.

It was definitely concerning that the hijack had seen two players already call the straddle in the knowledge that the blind raise was coming, and had still put in a raise himself. I almost felt that I'd backed myself into a corner by calling the straddle and was in a no-man's-land kind of situation as a result (something that never happens to me usually, because I never limp-raise). I definitely don't think he wanted to "see where he was at" and I was sure that he likely had a decent hand. I was certainly hoping that he would fold, and concerned when he went into the tank. He was subsequently very annoyed with himself over the fold (even though he would have lost) and said that the deciding factor was that he was not sure if I had been aware of the blind raise when I called the straddle.

Thanks, it was a fun hand.

Yeah, I think it's pretty close with AKo. The hijack is a good friend of mine, and he was very annoyed with the fold after the hand. He wasn't sure if I had realized the blind raise was in play, and he knows that I'm a tighter-than-average player - which I believe is what swayed his decision to fold.

Yes I think you're right that the blind raise can be seen as the BB here, and that I'm in a very nice spot as a result because I can "limp" for $6, see how the whole table decides to play vs the blind raise, and then proceed accordingly. I wonder what the cutoff point for this should be though. Surely there is a range of hands stronger than AQs that I should simply open? Or perhaps I play all of my hands as a limp-raise/limp-jam? Again, as mentioned above, it's just a matter of what is the higher EV option - and that's what I'm not sure about.

Interesting observation about the blind raise making my stack ~12bbs - perhaps indeed that makes open jamming an attractive option too, and it's not something I considered. I guess at the end of the day, as you mentioned, limp-jamming will get more dead money in the pot. I wonder if anyone out there has a preflop solved that can look at spots like this?

FWIW, I open limp / overlimp 100% of the hands I'm playing (including AA) until the CO (where I then usually have to do my own dirty work of raising) and my game typically is just a run-of-the-mill non-insane game. At a "famously loose action" table where people are putting in monstrous raises and getting called multiway, I see no good reason why we'd open any hand ourselves from almost anywhere. Giving ourselves the opportunity to 3bet with this insane amount of dead money / setting up trivial SPRs to commit to is printing huge and you'd have a hard time convincing me any other method is more EV. Also keep in mind that it is perfectly valid to limp in expecting to LRR against most and then change our mind and fold if the raise comes from the wrong guy.

You really think HJ with ~6 players action players behind is raising a range we're doing alright against? He's not "isolating" anyone (lol, even if you fold he's still going *4 ways* at this table). It would be an interesting question to pose to him off the table if you think you'll get an honest answer. But yeah, borderline spot for us (where a fold is perfectly fine, imo) and tricky spot for him too (his fold is probably defensible if you're at the nitty end of the scale as tighter-than-average doesn't mean much at this table).

GcluelessNLnoobG

I don't use solvers (so put me on ignore, ldo, lol), but I can't possibly see how open jamming is better than limping in to then jam if it just flats back to us. The times we take down the dead money uncontested is massively EV and the times we get called also usually produces more dead money than if we open jammed. This spot (when we 100% know there is a raise coming as it is already out there out-of-turn) seems like a no-brainer to me. We also get called a lot lighter by LRRing than open jamming (more dead money + already sunk cost to convince opponent they are now committed with whatever piece of cheese they have).

Gcluelessmath-by-gutnoobG

Fair enough, each to their own - although I cannot say I ever open limp in a regular NLHE game.

Yes I think you're right that in an insanely loose action game where there has been a blind raise, limping the straddle must be the best option. I'd just be interested to see what the exact EV of it is, compared to opening to ~$120, and simply open jamming. If there had been no blind raise, I would have simply opened to ~$30.

Good point about the option to limp intending to raise, but folding instead if the raise comes from the wrong guy.

Yeah I figured HJ was raising a range of something like 99+,ATs+,A5s-A4s,KTs+,ATo+,KQo or thereabouts, and (checking this morning with Equilab) AQs has 55.06% vs that range. Of course, I couldn't do these calculations at the table, but I simply felt that AQs was strong enough to go with. I felt that he was 'isolating' the blind raise, but I guess a better way of putting it is simply that he was going after the dead money. I'll ask him how wide he is isolating in this spot to see if he'll give an answer for the thread.

Agreed it's a close spot for AQs. I had been card dead and playing tight for many hours, which I believe gave the jam more perceived strength. Definitely a close spot for AKo too, but yes the hijack is definitely aware that I am a tighter player (not just by the standards of the casino we were playing it - just in general and in comparison to the low stakes population).

I mean, a LRR does put a bunch of his range in the blender so we have FE too (especially with him knowing we know that there's been a raise to a massive $55). But make no mistake: we are running into better quite often, and so now the question is whether that better is going to fold at a decent rate given they've put in ~1/5th of stacks (which they might).

GinterestingspotG

Agreed, we are running into better quite a bit.

I was certain that the hijack was going to play very well in response to the jam; he's an excellent player (Stars NL500 zoom winning player). In other words, my fold equity was about "what it should be" - he's unlikely to overfold or overcall (although ironically enough he felt that he made a bad fold after the hand; I guess it's an unusual spot and he thought I was stronger than I was - but of course I'm at the bottom of my range with AQs).

Update: hijack says that his raising range here is around 99+, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, AQo+.

He also said that the blind raise and iso raise size were different from what I remembered - $26 and $110 respectively. This is kind of interesting actually as I may well have played differently vs a smaller blind raise (in all likelihood just opening normally, to about $80).