Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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30758 Replies
I get that most of you yanks can’t begin to understand what it might mean to have your family, friends and culture either destroyed or under threat of destruction but if you did you might begin to understand that for a lot of people there’s nothing to lose any more.
That sounds like a very dangerous neighbor to have if you are Israel. Do you think if those people chilled out on the Jihads and intifadas and the firing of rockets and hostage taking etc. they would be less under threat of destruction? Do they not value their children? That seems like something to lose.
First of all I wouldn't have children when living in a warzone. If I did have children I would teach them the error of my ways. I would try to break the victim mentality. I would try to create a new paradigm that didn't include violent resistance. I wouldn't send them to Hamas summer camp. I would homeschool them instead of sending them to a school that teaches Jew hating. I'm a firm believer that we teach people how to treat us. In the West Bank there are Jewish owned businesses that employ "Palestinians". They get along just fine.
I agree, Israel has created a very dangerous neighbour for itself.
Well done Israel.
Always in awe at how brave these people are. She keeps reporting when I'd be running away.
US foreign policy will be back to the original Monroe Doctrine in in 30 years, possibly sooner. Right now interest payments on the national debt are > the military budget and debt-to-GDP is at 1945 levels, at a time when the war is just warming up. Imagine the situation when China moves to control the South China Sea.
The only long-term solution for the US is to make major concessions internationally and focus on getting the internal economic situation in order. When Gen Z politicians are trying
This seems to be making a lot of assumptions and it’s not clear how much aid Israel will need in 30 years. They’ve had plans to ramp down their reliance on US aid for a long time and we’re currently watching Iran and their proxies speed run their own destruction. Even without the war accelerating things, Iran‘s current regime might not last 30 years with their policy of executing their own people.
Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Iran leads an 'axis of evil' at opening of parliament
“Iran is working for a stockpile of nuclear bombs and will be able to threaten the entire world whenever it wants. If Israel falls, the entire Middle East will fall into its hands, but we will not fall. We will win, and the whole world will be a better place,” said the prime minister.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2...
Boom boom boom ...
Israel grabbed the land and the UN did nothing to stop them.
Many land grabs meet with violent reactions.
It's great that Israel tells people to get out of there so there are little to no civilian casualties.
Historically, dropping leaflets etc isn’t meant to diminish civilian casualties; they’re designed to increase the psychological impact and decrease the international stigma of bombing civilian areas. It’s not what you think it is.
USA#1 invented that strategy. It’s meant to scare people with maximum effect while giving yourself the out to tell others “hey we did warn them!” It’s not meant to actually save them, unfortunately.
Historically, dropping leaflets etc isn’t meant to diminish civilian casualties; they’re designed to increase the psychological impact and decrease the international stigma of bombing civilian areas. It’s not what you think it is.
USA#1 invented that strategy. It’s meant to scare people with maximum effect while giving yourself the out to tell others “hey we did warn them!” It’s not meant to actually save them, unfortunately.
I don't think Israel benefits from these "outs". The International community will look to condemn them no matter what they do. No matter what the intentions of these warnings are they ultimately do save civilian lives. The Israelis would much prefer to remove the civilians so they can more liberally take out weapons depots and active terrorist.
Historically, dropping leaflets etc isn’t meant to diminish civilian casualties; they’re designed to increase the psychological impact and decrease the international stigma of bombing civilian areas. It’s not what you think it is.
USA#1 invented that strategy. It’s meant to scare people with maximum effect while giving yourself the out to tell others “hey we did warn them!” It’s not meant to actually save them, unfortunately.
It depends on what’s on the leaflets. Leaflets simply telling civilians to evacuate an area or direct them to aid are not forms of psychological warfare. Leaflets have been used to disseminate propaganda and incite fear, but that does not mean that is their intended purpose in every situation.
Israel grabbed the land and the UN did nothing to stop them.
Many land grabs meet with violent reactions.
They grabbed the land after being attacked. They gave some back. They kept the high ground for strategic safety purposes. I get the "Palestinians" not liking it but actions have consequences.
The Israelis would much prefer to remove the civilians so they can more liberally take out weapons depots and active terrorist.
I'd love it if I had a pony. As it stands, the IDF has zero moral authority to order millions of people in a separate sovereign nation to forfeit their homes.
They grabbed the land after being attacked. They gave some back. They kept the high ground for strategic safety purposes.
I'm glad we can all finally agree that Israel has seized land from Palestine.
Historically, dropping leaflets etc isn’t meant to diminish civilian casualties; they’re designed to increase the psychological impact and decrease the international stigma of bombing civilian areas. It’s not what you think it is.
USA#1 invented that strategy. It’s meant to scare people with maximum effect while giving yourself the out to tell others “hey we did warn them!” It’s not meant to actually save them, unfortunately.
Not correct.
The British invented it in 1915, dropping newspapers in leaflet form, "Le Courrier de l'Air " , to occupied Belgians and french people.
And it was meant to keep the morale higher than otherwise
ICC guy who wants to arrest israeli politicians has been accused of sexual misconduct
his defense strategy: blame israel
Historically, dropping leaflets etc isn’t meant to diminish civilian casualties; they’re designed to increase the psychological impact and decrease the international stigma of bombing civilian areas. It’s not what you think it is.
USA#1 invented that strategy. It’s meant to scare people with maximum effect while giving yourself the out to tell others “hey we did warn them!” It’s not meant to actually save them, unfortunately.
warning citizens that their town is going to be bombed isn’t meant to get them to evacuate? interesting. what exactly do you based that off of? I personally would rather get a warning than not.
warning citizens that their town is going to be bombed isn’t meant to get them to evacuate? interesting. what exactly do you based that off of? I personally would rather get a warning than not.
you could just base it off of how Israel actually does it. putting out warnings at 3am. telling people to leave with a few hours and then bombing 15 minutes later. bombing the recommended safe zones. often not issuing warnings. its all terrorism.
I found sources that said it was a form of psychological warfare, which is probably true, but none that analyzed from the perspective of whether they actually saved lives. both can be true at the same time.
you could just base it off of how Israel actually does it. putting out warnings at 3am. telling people to leave with a few hours and then bombing 15 minutes later. bombing the recommended safe zones. often not issuing warnings. its all terrorism.
might be that all of these things you say have happened actually happened, but it doesn’t indicate terrorism. we have to look at what is being targeted and how often these alleged bad practices are happening versus what you would call good practices.
and at least according to crossnerd dropping leaflets is apparently more of a psychological propaganda thing. I would agree with your implication that getting a clear and timely warning is better than no warning.
also to be clear a bombing campaign is different than a drone strike or some other targeted killing so hopefully when you say “no warning” you’re not lumping that in with what we’re talking about.
you could just base it off of how Israel actually does it. putting out warnings at 3am. telling people to leave with a few hours and then bombing 15 minutes later. bombing the recommended safe zones. often not issuing warnings. its all terrorism.
Are you saying that they sometimes use the leaflets to purposely get innocents to move to a "safe zone" where they are more likely to get killed than if they stayed put?
