Am I playing too tight?
Am I playing too tight?

Am I playing too tight?

Is this actually a complete or a fold? I figure vs utg range and then even after all the other calls I'd be in absolutely dogshit shape versus those ranges and my pair is only 8 high for a set unlikely to be top set especially multi way my hand is basically looking for a flush? Idk maybe I'm too tight.


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24 October 2024 at 10:30 AM
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12 Replies



Correction 7* high. Also I figured being out of position doesn't help? Unless closing the action is an overriding factor?

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Your particular hand GTO would fold in this spot, but would play it if it was double suited.

It was 3b it if you had the best variety.

It's not a great spot so I doubt you are losing much if you just decide to fold every combo.


by djevans m

Your particular hand GTO would fold in this spot, but would play it if it was double suited.

For a variety of reasons, this is completely irrelevant. The solver is looking to minimise losses against another solver. You are looking to maximise wins against a human opponent. The divergence in strategy that this creates compounds, meaning the further we get from showdown, the more it becomes the case. The lower the stakes we play, the less we can expect our opponents to be simulating a solver strategy too. If you could nodelock here in a way that told the solver how much overlay came from the deviations from GTO strat that these guys follow, solver would almost certainly play this hand and a lot more.

This is also why presolves for preflop (particularly the ones that don't tell you the EV difference) are not just a waste of time and money, they are actively harmful to your game. They are predicated on you following all those decisions up with solver-based decisions on future streets. It's like a computer program might be able to tell you how to build a house of cards on a surfboard on calm seas and with some precise manufacturing robots, and you think that will help you as you're trying to build a house of cards while you're surfing the high seas.


This may not be true at all. It depends on how his opponents are playing. The correct GTO strategy may be to play less hands. I don't think any of that applies to someone short stacking an app game playing 6 card. That's enough glass tapping.


by Arden m

This may not be true at all. It depends on how his opponents are playing. The correct GTO strategy may be to play less hands. I don't think any of that applies to someone short stacking an app game playing 6 card. That's enough glass tapping.

It may not be but when you've got a suited ace and potential for a wrap and potential for top set and you're not blocking yourself at all and you're closing the action getting > 4-1 and with best relative position and a generally easy hand to play postflop, well, if you can't call that profitably, you need to find another game. Solver doesn't pay off postflop drawing to nothing the way humans do. Preflop presolves do not account for all the delicious moolah you're going to pick up just by playing your hand well postflop.

Yes, it may also be true that against wider ranges we're supposed to tighten up. Folding here ain't one of them


Rake should be taken into account when making marginal calls preflop. This spot seems like a fold but maybe it's closer if you have a 9 instead of an 8?

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To everyone who folds this pre, thankyou for leaving all that money on the table. Nothing marginal about this spot.


We are going to make bad sets and bad wraps oop. A nut suit is really nice but we’re not going to realize our equity well oop multi way. I would fold, but a call can’t be that bad.


by OmahaDonk m

We are going to make bad sets and bad wraps oop. A nut suit is really nice but we’re not going to realize our equity well oop multi way. I would fold, but a call can’t be that bad.

The SPR on the flop is going to be 2.5, and our total implied odds is ~60-1. Position is of very little value when the pot is this big compared to stacks, and in fact is an advantage here because we have best relative position.

If you go around poker looking for excuses to fold, you'll find them, and you're just gonna have to buy a slightly smaller tv, I'm afraid


I'm curious, what is the rake and is it a minimum vpip table? And what are the implications of this?


If it makes a difference, I also have a 50% rakeback deal. Rake is 10% at $8 max I believe.

Honestly just typing that makes me think it's definitely a call preflop?

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If rake is 10% you should fold, cash out, and play on another site.

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