2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
Ok these posts taken together make more sense. If you are playing Devil’s advocate then you are free to make whatever arguments you want. The problem is when you do indeed falsify a slate of electors in order to overturn an election, whether we want to call it legal or illegal (and I certainly believe that Trump didn’t care if it was or wasn’t) we’re still not getting to the morality of it. It fails the reasonable person standard because no reasonable person would think it was ok to falsify slat
I agree, it was shady, and my respect for Pence not falling for it remains high. I don't think it was illegal though. There are lots of little loopholes in law, and this was one of them. Hopefully the book is closed.
Also on the flip side, if the ISL was legal that doesn’t give the vice president access to any of that, as the ISL itself would not be talking about federal law but whether state legislatures can ignore state law and certify in whatever manner they want by a simple majority.
Ah, debatable.
At the very least you realize that if Trump got his way there would have been a gigantic consitutional crisis, confusion, possible military coups due to wanting to prevent Trump from taking power, counter coups to allow him to take power. 200+ years of history gone overnight. This is again on the most charitable reading of all the facts.
“Just say there were problems and let me handle the rest”
Oh for sure, no question there. Would have been a disaster and the fact that some SCOTUS justices have agreed with ISL since at least the 2000 election is also scary.
Two of those are different from the other two in the context of this discussion. Do you see why?
They're synonymous.
After I made the grammatical complaint I started thinking whether I could think of any examples of the phenomenon in practice (I always knew what you meant in theory) and I couldn't. You and Luciom have since provided some examples.
Ok.
Not sure what this is supposed to mean. The question was would you ever say "illegal by law" or "illegal in law" in English?
I added the English words to emphasize illegal, since something can be de jure legal as well-->not prohibited by law(s) or claimed by right.
I agree, it was shady, and my respect for Pence not falling for it remains high. I don't think it was illegal though. There are lots of little loopholes in law, and this was one of them. Hopefully the book is closed.
Ah, debatable.
Oh for sure, no question there. Would have been a disaster and the fact that some SCOTUS justices have agreed with ISL since at least the 2000 election is also scary.
This is probably as close to agreement on this issue as we’re going to get, but yeah I truly think the fake elector scheme would be illegal if it was allowed to work its way through the courts, which if Trump wins is just not happening.
Even if he loses I’m not sure that he could even be found guilty (though probably not “not guilty” either) because of jury nullification.
StoppedRainingMen is going to take a 24 hour timeout from us because personal attacks to that degree are not the vibe. I’ve deleted the insults.
Please chill the **** out, friends 😀
Losing SRM is a great loss to the sports forum aorn.
I believe personally she's gonna win, Ezra Cohen just said there's widespread fraud going on in CO and PA, but for him to know that hopefully means something was done about it. I've only heard of a few confirmed prisoners (one of them a guy stuffing drop off boxes at 12am....seriously if these things still exist, it's over, she wins. Why do we even need them post covid?). They also caught someone walking into a closed drop off center, being let in after closing, driving a vehicle with out of sta
I honestly think that there's a real disconnect between thinking or fearing of these particular things happening and actually believing them to be true. I think that's somewhat consistent with most conspiracy theories. Since 2016, here on 2+2 and other places, a large % of people have felt very passionately one way or another about who was going to win the presidency and their thought process almost often seemed irrational and was always deeply caked in heavy bias.
I asked because I wasn't sure you were even aware that you could put money on Kamala and win 150% of your money and that it may offer a moment clarity on just how confident you really believe in the things that you are saying. Would you bet 2-1 odds that Building 7 was a controlled demolition? Because it really would be telling for you espouse this type of confidence in one particular direction but not feel confident to make a bet for your own self.
while its absolute dogshit that people want abortionto be straight up illegal
its actually borderline insane people cant fathom that there are those who legit are pro life for one reason or another. surprised at how mad peopel are that cant understand people are gona vote for trump nto becuase they are nazis but becuase mayeb they somewhat like his policy whatever that may be where they like.
its like being a republican is worse or as equal than a full fledged nazi in a lot of peoples eyes
Absolutely brilliant kitsch.
while its absolute dogshit that people want abortionto be straight up illegal
its actually borderline insane people cant fathom that there are those who legit are pro life for one reason or another. surprised at how mad peopel are that cant understand people are gona vote for trump nto becuase they are nazis but becuase mayeb they somewhat like his policy whatever that may be where they like.
its like being a republican is worse or as equal than a full fledged nazi in a lot of peoples eyes
I’m not sure if anyone serious thinks that Trump supporters are all nazis or even mostly. I’m sure there are some people you can point to but they usually don’t constitute the bulk of the political discourse. It’s more likely that people think Trump himself admires/parrots some Hitlarian/fascist talking points, and then there are various degrees of buy in for that rhetoric.
I don’t deny anyway that there are probably a large plurality of people just voting for Trump because of inflation or social issues or something. The problem is that his authoritarian rhetoric is obvious and many people will deny it in order to justify their choice in their own mind. That makes it look like they have to deny his authoritarianism in order to justify their vote to themselves. That kinda makes you think that they either don’t care about it, or they do care about it but they have cognitive dissonance.
I’m not sure if anyone serious thinks that Trump supporters are all nazis or even mostly. I’m sure there are some people you can point to but they usually don’t constitute the bulk of the political discourse. It’s more likely that people think Trump himself admires/parrots some Hitlarian/fascist talking points, and then there are various degrees of buy in for that rhetoric.
I don’t deny anyway that there are probably a large plurality of people just voting for Trump
many trump supporters and maga are just plain dumb not realizing the disconnect of trump actions and narratives.
that is the problem.
i mean seriously how someone believe voting for trump is voting for freedom when trump has many fascist/authoritarian rhetoric and envy/compliments many dictators in the world while rejecting or fighting with many historical allies when they disagree with him ?
theocracy, authoritarian and all other $h!t like that that maga likes are not models of freedom...far from it but because they like it they think it is...
pro life is just a great example how it isnt for freedom when you prevent others what they want to do with their body or what they want to believe in...
According to Putin, the deep state is planning to rig the 2024 election
According to Putin, the deep state is planning to rig the 2024 election
Well if Putin says it you know its true
Everyone knew it would come down to who can rig the hardest in the end.
while its absolute dogshit that people want abortionto be straight up illegal
its actually borderline insane people cant fathom that there are those who legit are pro life for one reason or another. surprised at how mad peopel are that cant understand people are gona vote for trump nto becuase they are nazis but becuase mayeb they somewhat like his policy whatever that may be where they like.
its like being a republican is worse or as equal than a full fledged nazi in a lot of peoples eyes
Crazy how important bodily autonomy is to some people, huh dude?
Neal Katyal warns that unlike 2020, when Trump lost so many states that challenging the electors for all of them was an untenable strategy, this time the election might be much closer and decided by a single state, which means they're much more likely to be successful in overturning the election by throwing out a single state's electors, esp after all the machinations Republicans have done since 2020 in replacing election officials at the state and local level with Trump loyalists.
Take Neal's warnings seriously. He's one of the most respected constitutional scholars in the country.
It would be nice if that was the case, unfortunately the number of people in favor of actual full body autonomy is vanishingly small :-(
Full , coherent bodily autonomy would encompass:
1) No questions asked abortion until the fetus is deemed a human being worthy of legal protection (when? doesn't matter, but that's not a bodily autonomy topic)
2) A complete ban on government being allowed to regulate in any form the consumption of absolutely any substance with no exception
3) A complete ban on government being allowed to mandate any medical procedure in any case with no exception
4) A complete ban on government being allowed to mandate the draft or any other form of mandatory "duty" (including jury duty) with no exception
5) A complete ban on government being allowed to prevent euthanasia
ie strong constitutional level protections preventing the government from ever telling you what you can or cannot do with, you know, your body until it's just about yourself
Maybe 1-2% of the american population
I don't know what's funnier: that they thought this was a good idea or that there are people in here praising this is as brilliant.
Just a huge self own.
