Rounding Up
25-25 PLO mix game. Lower denomination chips (ones and fives) play in increments of 25 only.
Player moves all in for 1399. He asks the table for a dollar. I, not in the hand, say that’s not fair. He berates me and gets a dollar. I turn to the dealer and tell him it’s his responsibility to say he can’t. Player goes off on me.
I know I am right by the letter of the law. It’s an extra 25 to the 2 other players if allowed. Should I have just let it go?
At that level of play, it is going to be by local conditions. Yes, by the strict rules, the player can't do that. However, if the players often give each other a couple of bucks to round up, I'd let it go. If I didn't know for sure, I'd let it go.
You are making yourself a target for no reason at all.
^^ This ^^
The comments cover your question, but I am curious what harm we are even trying to reduce here. Are we being a rule nit for the sake of being a rule nit, or is there something I'm missing? This is the closest we have to an explanation:
So twelve bucks each? Half a blind?
If he's a big donator just let it slide. If he's some random jerk who doesn't play very bad, be a rule nit by all means. The people who would have to face the extra $25 should speak up if it's important to them, but you're not wrong for bringing it to their attention so they can make that decision.
If he's a big donator just let it slide. If he's some random jerk who doesn't play very bad, be a rule nit by all means. The people who would have to face the extra $25 should speak up if it's important to them, but you're not wrong for bringing it to their attention so they can make that decision.
The problem is they give away information by wanting / not wanting the 25 to stand.
The comments cover your question, but I am curious what harm we are even trying to reduce here. Are we being a rule nit for the sake of being a rule nit, or is there something I'm missing? This is the closest we have to an explanation:
So twelve bucks each? Half a blind?
25 more to call. The extra dollar takes his all in from 1375 to 1400.
Got it. I thought the player was calling all-in for less, and so I read that line to say: "It’s an extra 25 [that could go to one or both of] the 2 other players if allowed."
I see the harm now.
I'm honestly baffled that someone who plays 25/25 is not only asking this question, but was also unable to predict how his actions would be interpreted by other players
If your goal was to tilt half the table to make it a better game then wp, otherwise not so much
The dealer should definitely have not let this happen, without any other player having to say something.
Yeah except that in many rooms a 25/25 plo game is going to be one of those “let the players police the games” games
Dealer should not allow.
No player intervention should be needed.
While OP is correct, speaking up is likely EV-
Frankly white chips should not play period. The only reason they should be on the table is tips @nd I guess to pay time if needed. White chip flow should be only from tray not into. I.e. player can change red/green into white but if they want to color up white (so they can play) use chip runner or cage.
Players can ping whites all day long and will not impact game but they will probably just pass 24 whites over to get a green back. Still not proper but impacts will usually be minimal.
Likely but I could be swayed, same for red chips.
In a game that big the dealer isn't going to say a thing over a 1BB difference in bet size. You probably shouldn't either unless you're trying to piss off the player who did it and/or whoever winds up winning the pot. It's usually the gambly types you want at the table who would do something like that.
Yeah except that in many rooms a 25/25 plo game is going to be one of those “let the players police the games” games
Those kinds of games shouldn't exist, because it is impossible to know that all players want it that way.
I'll bet the house cashier isn't going to round up when you go to cash out your chips.
Of course you are correct, but I would have let it go, especially if I was not in the hand. Even if I was, I would have let it go 😉
I mean, it's $1,400, who cares about $25? If one of the players in the hand cared, they should have said something.
Of course you are correct, but I would have let it go, especially if I was not in the hand. Even if I was, I would have let it go 😉
I mean, it's $1,400, who cares about $25? If one of the players in the hand cared, they should have said something.
It has already been pointed out why players in the hand might not say anything.
this thread is why we can't have nice things and most games of that size have gone private
Of course you are correct, but I would have let it go, especially if I was not in the hand. Even if I was, I would have let it go 😉
I mean, it's $1,400, who cares about $25? If one of the players in the hand cared, they should have said something.
There are two groups of people here arguing things, both of which are correct and not in conflict. I agree that (because of his self-interest) the OP should not have said anything about this during the hand. However, I also think this kind of thing shouldn't be allowed by the house.
To be fair, OP actually did ask what he should have done, so you guys are answering the question he asked.
But this forum usually discusses not how a player should maximize his self-interest, but how rooms should be run, which is why we are saying that the dealer made a mistake.
I am curious as to what those on the other side think should be allowed.
If you think this should be allowed, where should the cutoff be? Should another player be allowed to throw him $2? $5? $20?
No. That is not what he meant.
It is absolutely 100% clear to everyone here that technically it is against the rules. If you asked everyone here what the rules ARE, they will all agree that a $1499 bet should be considered a $1475 bet according to the rules. No one will argue with you on that technical detail.
What he was talking about was the spirit of the game. We are talking about a single big blind sized discrepancy in a big pot. Furthermore, it wasn't like it was 100% unfair to the calling players, sure they would have to call an extra $25, but they were also going to win and extra $25 if they win.
His point was that people who argued over a single big blind in huge pots on rules technicalities are the type of people who do not get invited to private games.
There are two groups of people here arguing things, both of which are correct and not in conflict. I agree that (because of his self-interest) the OP should not have said anything about this during the hand. However, I also think this kind of thing shouldn't be allowed by the house.
To be fair, OP actually did ask what he should have done, so you guys are answering the question he asked.
But this forum usually discusses not how a player should maximize his self-interest, but how rooms should be r
In every room I have dealt in, the biggest games in the room are always given a little bit of leeway in certain rules enforcement. It is still important to protect novice players, but rules are bent if they don't drastically hurt anyone. For example, in almost every casino, technically going by the written house rules, a straddle has to be posted before the first card is dealt. In practice this is almost never enforced, especially in higher limit games. No one is hurt by letting players straddle when the dealer is halfway through dealing the first card (or even later).
Generally rules that are about a big blind or less can be severely bent. Spirit of the rules.
As for where the line is drawn, that depends. It is admittedly a wishy washy grey area. Absolutely no doubt. There are no clear lines. That said, as a dealer, my general mode of operation is to let small things pass, but if it gets too far into a grey area I explain to the players that I am letting certain things slide, but I make it clear what the technical rules are and clearly say if anyone has a problem I will strictly enforce the rules if requested.
Also, I want to hear your thoughts on this situation.
$1/$3 game. There is a preflop raiser (say to $10, but doesn't matter) 3 callers. Flop comes out, first player checks. Someone else bets $30 into a ~$40 pot. Action gets back to first player. He has two stacks of red on front of him (~$190 - $210) plus two white chips.
Without saying anything the first player pushes his two stacks of red chips out over the line and then goes back and picks up his two white chips and adds them to his bet.
Obviously at a technical level this is a string bet. Technically his two white chips should not be part of the bet. 100% absolutely according to the rules.
Now it is also equally 100% true that those extra $2 make absolutely zero difference to any decisions other players will make. It doesn't materially affect a fold/call decision on the flop and if returned it wouldn't affect any turn action (no one is folding for $2 in a $400 + pot).
Should the dealer enforce the string bet rule here?
No. That is not what he meant.
It is absolutely 100% clear to everyone here that technically it is against the rules. If you asked everyone here what the rules ARE, they will all agree that a $1499 bet should be considered a $1475 bet according to the rules. No one will argue with you on that technical detail.
What he was talking about was the spirit of the game. We are talking about a single big blind sized discrepancy in a big pot. Furthermore, it wasn't like it was 100% unfair to the calling p
I understand what you're seeking, but he seemed to assume that the fact that people online express the opinion that it should not be allowed means that they would argue about it in person (I would not).
It was a for profit reg. He should know better but maybe it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme.
Thank you guys for the input.
