***Official H&F LC Thread***
A valid strategy for getting ripped imo.
(From http://extrafabulouscomics.com/, kyleb's (RIP) favorite web comic)
This is literally not true, as demonstrated by droves of MAGA voters quoting GIRLS IN BOYS' BATHROOM as one of the reasons they voted for Trump. Denying that sexism and hate for others isn't a driving factor (but not the only one) behind MAGA is also pretty fruitless imo.
No, I mean the Democrat's attempt at concentrating on identity politics - they assume (rightly, imo) they have the highground and only idiots would side with MAGA. It doesn't matter whether this thinking is right or wrong, everyone who would side with the Democrats b/c of identity politics already will vote that way - hitting everyone over the head with it infinite times is not a useful strategy for winning over anyone on the fence (they likely find the whole thing annoying or would already have sided with dems or maga) and just causes Trump supporters to be even more certain they are on the side they want to be on.
Immigration is a really tough issue and I don't even know what I would think is best. It seems reasonable to me there should be some kind of thing to keep the path to citizenship incentivized and staying in the US as an "illegal immigrant" decentivized. OTOH, it would be nice to have relatively humane rules and procedures. I believe not too long ago (Clinton and Bush administrations) both parties were pretty "harsh" on this issue but I also believe (hopefully correctly) that it was handled in a much "nicer" way than how Trump has and seems to want to handle it. What was the problem with how we did it? I never noticed why it shifted so much.
Identity stuff has progressed waaaaay too quickly for too many people here in the US. It wasn't very long ago that we had segregation or that women got any sort of actual rights. I think it's simply too much too soon. As "mean" as it may be, I think backing off a lot of that rhetoric (even though at the same time I'm super triggered when I see such marginalized groups suffer) is important. Similarly with gun violence, the way to likely make progress is incremental without constantly setting off a massive portion of the country by telling them how wrong and immoral they are (again, even if it's true lol).
Like, there is an actual solution to gun violence, it's not even complex, and the US can't make almost any headway. If anything, the more there is a fight against them, the more widespread and the more issues there are. Can't there just be some fairly low key massive gun buyback program that lasts 20 years and we see where we're at then? We waste a ton of money on things that we know basically aren't doing anything, not sure how much this would move the needle without more restrictions as well, but it's something.
i didn't think trump could effectively drain the swamp the first time, even if he was sincere(i didnt think he was). this time he is seasoned. now he knows who is who in dc. he knows who will get **** done. i still wasn't convinced till rfk jr joined, with a fire inside him like few others.
i hope they do drain the waste and corruption. i think getting that right opens the door for us to do a far better job in every way. if people feel secure and hopeful for the future then we can evolve socially, which is necessary to overcome gender issues and gun violence.
gender issues are a mystery to me, no comment.
i think teaching peaceful, psychological based conflict resolution far and wide is the sort of step in the right direction we need to counteract gun violence. also getting mental help is pretty ****ing scary in itself. losing family, friends, jobs, love, etc, are all very real possibilities when you make that step to get help. then if you actually get committed its no picnic in mental hospitals. all the legislation one can muster will never change all that. social issues need social evolution.
my 2 cents.
I realize my posts are garbage so to make up for them, I noticed today on my DNA results (got them many years ago b/c someone gave me a kit), the results for "physical strength":
Wish someone told me that before I even started posting on H&F lol.
i think teaching peaceful, psychological based conflict resolution far and wide is the sort of step in the right direction we need to counteract gun violence.
Yes, although there isn't a lot of good evidence this has any chance to truly move the needle. There is a lot of evidence that fewer guns = massive reduction in gun violence. Is there any way to have way fewer guns (and still have hunting!) without a ton of people in the country completely losing their minds? It doesn't seem that way.
also getting mental help is pretty ****ing scary in itself. losing family, friends, jobs, love, etc, are all very real possibilities when you make that step to get help. then if you actually get committed its no picnic in mental hospitals. all the legislation one can muster will never change all that. social issues need social evolution.
my 2 cents.
What % of people who seek mental health help lose their friends, jobs, and partner?
Also, that kind of intervention likely can only help in certain situations and, as you mention, people have to decide to do it for themselves. Even if it's possible to determine who is most at-risk of "bad" violence when purchasing a gun (guess what, 100% are at-risk of violence since guns are inherently violent lol), and even if there is effective policy to have mental health intervention for them, it's extremely hard to imagine this being particularly effective.
What % of people who seek mental health help lose their friends, jobs, and partner?
i don't believe any such statistics exist.
if you asked what % of people that experience severe mental illness also experience the negative mental health stigma first hand face to face regularly? i would guess near 100%.
most people don't just suddenly lose everything, but im sure some do.
Also, that kind of intervention likely can only help in certain situations and, as you mention, people have to decide to do it for themselves.
the point is that those are the reasons lots of people dont get help.
Yes, although there isn't a lot of good evidence this has any chance to truly move the needle.
it would take a long time and much learning to see real social evolution, perhaps more than a generation. shame and punishment are not working as crime deterrence. we need new methods of conflict resolution. what would conflict resolution look like in 50 years? 150 years? beyond? lets try to go there.
There is a lot of evidence that fewer guns = massive reduction in gun violence.
of course there is, but many Americans love their right to bear arms. thats the crux.
Drama in the family bros, we will see what happens at Thanksgiving.
My mom and husband voted for Trump a 3rd time. My sister and I both help to support them financially.
Trump just nominated Gaetz to be my sister's big boss. Fun times at the LocoFamily.
I don't think he gets the votes. But then DeSantis will give him Rubio's senate spot. Then Gaetz will get Thune replaced by Rick Scott as senate majority leader. Trump happy and not his fault senate didn't approve Gaetz. Probably Stephen Miller all behind this because Trump sure ain't that smart.
Just like the last administration, this is better than any wild unbelievable comedy film. I got popcorn ready for the next 4 years.
They're still about a million times better than MAGA, but that's mostly just because of the comparison.
I'll take the average MAGA Qanon obese 89 IQ 63 year old facebook mom with type 2 diabetes over this any day. But it's your right to disagree.
(I mean whoever wrote this scene, not the fictional characters in case this wasn't clear)
I gotta pick an e-fight with Rich just to see:
Abortion should be legal with very few limitations because it is one of the few eugenic forces we have in modern anglospheric society which is rapidly experiencing a reverse flynn effect. It's a violation of a woman's bodily autonomy to force her to give birth to a child she doesn't want to raise. The kids who would have been born but were instead aborted likely would have experienced very unhappy lives and also spread misery, crime, drugs, and violence to those around them.
(actually that is probably far more offensive to leftists for acknowledging uncomfortable semi-deterministic realities. It's only okay to be pro-choice because women are oppressed by men lol. but that isn't my point)
I gotta pick an e-fight with Rich just to see:
Abortion should be legal with very few limitations because it is one of the few eugenic forces we have in modern anglospheric society which is rapidly experiencing a reverse flynn effect. It's a violation of a woman's bodily autonomy to force her to give birth to a child she doesn't want to raise. The kids who would have been born but were instead aborted likely would have experienced very unhappy lives and also spread misery, crime, drugs, and viol
Freakonomics wrote a very convincing article about how Giuliani's much lauded crackdown on crime in New York was most likely a result of the implications of legalised abortion rather than any policing strategy or action
Freakonomics wrote a very convincing article about how Giuliani's much lauded crackdown on crime in New York was most likely a result of the implications of legalised abortion rather than any policing strategy or action
Correct. I remember showing this to a pro-choice friend from the UK who also taught Econ and the look of horror and disgust on his face was something I can never forget. He had relgiious devotion to blank slatism and seeing all these hate-facts and hate-data was just too much for him.
I'll take the average MAGA Qanon obese 89 IQ 63 year old facebook mom with type 2 diabetes over this any day. But it's your right to disagree.
(I mean whoever wrote this scene, not the fictional characters in case this wasn't clear)
Don't be a dick bro, my mom is on ozempic and she gonna be super slim and beautiful for my wedding. She is not even obese anymore.
Probably greatest accomplishment of my life. Hey mom, why don't you get on Ozempic for the wedding?
Probably gonna get another 5 years of mother by using the "lose weight for a wedding" strategy. Unfortunately more MAGA than ever.
Oh the Dem party has failed utterly, no doubt about it. They're still about a million times better than MAGA, but that's mostly just because of the comparison.
Then again, actually trying to have a rational discussion with true Trump-pilled people like Muny is literally 100% a waste of time. If this isn't obvious I don't know what to tell you.
Soulman,
This isn't the Politics forum.
Why do you think you can attack me on H&F for non-2+2 posts? You think you can cancel me for disagreeing with you or something?
I think there was a poll that asked Scandinavians who would they vote for and it was 90+% Harris over Trump.
So we see where the saltiness from Soulman comes from.
But I think the Scandinavian countries are probably best place in the world to live. High GDP, less inequality, universal Healthcare, universal higher education, and some of the happiest people in the world.
So I do think MAGA is wrong and the Nordics correct. I mean the main reason MAGA won was uneducated Latinos spilling over to the Trump Trojan horse while black women and educated white women tried to whole down the fort.
So yeah, i side with the Nordics (lol uneducated latinos).
Having said that, I am rooting for MAGA. Maybe there is another way. Ship out the illegals. Lower the deficit. Don't increase inflation and unemployment from current levels. Secure the border.
Doubt it but let's go MAGA!!!!
Don't be a dick bro, my mom is on ozempic and she gonna be super slim and beautiful for my wedding. She is not even obese anymore.
Probably greatest accomplishment of my life. Hey mom, why don't you get on Ozempic for the wedding?
Probably gonna get another 5 years of mother by using the "lose weight for a wedding" strategy. Unfortunately more MAGA than ever.
oh, i wasn't picking on your mom in particular, sorry homie. It's just an archetype of a less informed Trump voter that popped into my head. Sorry if that felt like an attack.
I think there was a poll that asked Scandinavians who would they vote for and it was 90+% Harris over Trump.
So we see where the saltiness from Soulman comes from.
I honestly think the number in most Western countries wouldn't be too dissimilar. I rarely meet anyone in Australia who does anything other than laugh or shake their head at Trump. It's just so difficult for non Americans to understand the attraction of Trump because of how much he debases the conversation and the debate.
His public persona is basically a WWE character and that kind of behaviour is so alien to the politics of other developed countries that they just assume that the people voting for him are either total buffoons or racists.
when you then throw in that a few of the big Trump/Republican causes are gun ownership and banning abortions and those issues have been pretty much settled elsewhere in the world in opposition of the Trump/R side of the argument not just politically but also in public mood/consciousness.
So people don't get it at all but then immediately belittle and demean all Trump voters, not understanding that there are many sensible people who just prefer the majority of his policies. Like plenty of people are rightly dissatisfied with what Biden and Harris did and also are aligned with some of the 'clean up the Washington bureaucracy', make immigration harder, try to help cost of living policies. But it's easier just to assume he's a racist idiot and so are his voters.
It's not dissimilar to how all the lefties characterised Brexit in the UK, completely ignoring all the reasons why the EU was ****ing Britain
On balance, I don't think could vote for Trump just because of who he is, but I also think the choice was plain awful and Harris was a pretty bad candidate
Correct. This is the LC thread where people in the sub discuss random shiet. Sometimes that random shiet is poiltics. There have been tons of political discussions here over the years. If you doubt this, you might want to check out the posting history our good friend jdock and his subsequent incarnations. I don't recall you ever reminding him that "This isn't the Politics forum". Maybe you just didn't notice any of his numerous political posts.
Why do you think you can attack me on H&F for non-2+2 posts? You think you can cancel me for disagreeing with you or something?
LOL, it's quite a leap going from Soulbro saying he has no interest in arguing with you to "Oh noes, Soulman is canceling me!".
Out of curiosity, what exactly do you think "canceling" means? And how is it that you think Soulman intended to accomplish this?
Can you elaborate on this? Why exactly was she a bad candidate?
I don't disagree with that assessment. I also think she was a bad candidate, but I suspect it may be for different reasons.
I’m a non American so I’m not following it closely but my POV is that
- she didn’t successfully separate herself from being associated with the mediocrity of the last 4 years
- she didn’t manage to create any overarching unifying theme other than ‘he’s bad and I’m not him’ and she didn’t even manage to do that successfully
- I can’t remember any interesting meaningful policy statements or initiatives. Particularly on things like the economy and immigration which were supposedly so important
I’m a non American so I’m not following it closely but my POV is that
- she didn’t successfully separate herself from being associated with the mediocrity of the last 4 years
Here's the thing. The mediocrity of the last 4 years was at least in part a figment of people's imaginations. People who thought things were worse than they actually were voted Trump. Here's one poll which showed that.
Now if you going to say, "Well it doesn't matter that much if people actually feel things are worse." I don't disagree with that. When you have Fox News and social media blasting misinformation 24/7 a lot of low info people are going to be fooled. Could someone besides Harris have done better in this regard? I don't know for sure.
Here's another weird thing. Most people didn't actually feel "mediocrity". Source in in article linked below
Though many seem to believe the economy is worse than it really is – particularly when looking at macroeconomic measures like inflation, unemployment and interest rates – most Americans are actually feeling better about their own personal financial situations.
More Americans indicated they were confident in their overall personal finances (61%) and their ability to afford necessities (72%) compared with May. And when asked if they felt better off financially than their parents, 58% of those polled agreed – 8% more than when the same question was asked last September.
- she didn’t manage to create any overarching unifying theme other than ‘he’s bad and I’m not him’ and she didn’t even manage to do that successfully
See above. Also the funny thing is that people actually prefer Harris/Dem policies to Trump/Republican ones. Take Missouri for example. There were referrendums on specific laws pertaining to providing abortion access, increasing the min wage, and paid sik leave. These are all things that Dems champion and Republicans are against. Missourians voted for all of those things and at the same time voted for Trump and Hawley (repub senator) who are opposed to all three. It's just inexplicable to me. If you want to be results oriented and say, "Well, obviously Harris did not do a good job if she lost despite people wanting those things", that is hard to argue against, but what I'd ask is what more could/should she have done. Was it really a mystery that these are things she supported and Trump didn't (and abortion is one he personally demolished).
Here's another article that showed that if you just asked voters about economic policies without telling them whose they were, they preferred Harris'.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024...
And there is plenty of footage of her espousing all of those polices.
- I can’t remember any interesting meaningful policy statements or initiatives. Particularly on things like the economy and immigration which were supposedly so important
I think we've covered economy. As far as immigration, Biden has already been deporting at record levels and there is again tons of footage of her being very anti-immigration. People unfortunately don't believe it. The funny thing is that if you listen to leftists they will tell you that they think Biden/Harris immigration policies are shockingly inhumane (because they're looking at facts). They would also tell you Trump would be even worse. She also never throws out whoppers like "I'm going to build a wall and Mexico will pay for it" or "I'm going to deport 20 million people" with no plan on how to do that.
In the end, I agree overall that Harris was a bad candidate. At the same time I'm hard pressed to figure out what she could/should have done better enough that would have led to a win. While she was a bad candidate, I don't think she would have been a bad president. She would have been pretty much establishment dem, replacement level, which is better than what we ended up with.
