Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
Russian propaganda hurts Ukraine, yes, that goes without saying. What point are you trying to make here?
I think they should release the names of the Nazi war criminals that immigrated to Canada. the fact that they specifically wont do that bc of Ukraine should be quite concerning to anyone like myself that opposes Nazism. those who are neutral with Nazism or support it would understandably be less concerned.
Who are the nazis that this refers to?
Maybe they aren't releasing it because Russian propaganda vilifying Ukraine as Nazis is a major deal right now... as exemplified by you prolific posting of Russian propaganda calling Ukrainians nazis in order justify a genocide against them and the largest imperialist invasion since WW2.
The exact opposite of what you're suggesting has been happening: actions similar to the reasons that Nazism is despised have been justified by Russian propaganda calling Ukrainians nazis. The concern is correctly identified. What exactly are you afraid will happen by delaying this?
I see so just a big (really really big) coincidence that you're constantly in here posting about Ukrainian nazis.
The only relation that this article has to Ukraine is that Ukraine was the reason to not share the information? What do you want to happen to the 900 alleged Nazi war criminals by releasing this information that makes it worthwhile to fuel Russian propaganda which will absolutely hurt Ukraine?
I think they should release the names of the Nazi war criminals that immigrated to Canada. the fact that they specifically wont do that bc of Ukraine should be quite concerning to anyone like myself that opposes Nazism. those who are neutral with Nazism or support it would understandably be less concerned.
Why is it concerning that helping Ukraine is a specific reason cited for not doing this?
Why would people "neutral with Nazism or support it" be less concerned about helping Ukraine?
I think they should release the names of the Nazi war criminals that immigrated to Canada. the fact that they specifically wont do that bc of Ukraine should be quite concerning to anyone like myself that opposes Nazism. those who are neutral with Nazism or support it would understandably be less concerned.
well we don't think their nazis that's mostly just you . also if they were "nazis" wouldn't they be fighting russia. or do you mean the people who fought for the nazis in the 1940's? who ****ing cares . The nazis are all dead my man.... I hate this term. Canada not releasing names of 100 year old's seems like a sensible thing to do. Like the veteran who spoke in parliament when Zelensky visited who really hurt from that experience? his family some of who I know in real life. Its not to protect the 100 year olds its to protect their family's and to not give you any ammo.
Not everything is a conspiracy vic
ofc it is sensible for Canada to whitewash its history of immigrating and hiding and collaborating with Post WW2 Nazis.
why does it matter today? well what to do they say about those who ignore history?
but to refrain from being trite for a moment, one reason is to find out what sort of influence these people had in Canadian and Western society over the last 80 years and what sort of legacies they have left.
its not a conspiracy, its right there in the open reported by a center right mainstream paper.
I never said they would be "less concerned about helping Ukraine". reread what I wrote.
I find it concerning in general that Canada is protecting the identities of nearly 1000 alleged Nazi War criminals from WW2. I put it in this thread bc ostensibly the reason to protect their names is due to Ukraine. I didnt create the linkage. the article did.
I think they should release the names of the Nazi war criminals that immigrated to Canada. the fact that they specifically wont do that bc of Ukraine should be quite concerning to anyone like myself that opposes Nazism. those who are neutral with Nazism or support it would understandably be less concerned.
I've reread it. I'm not sure how else to read this. It looks like you think the fact that Ukraine was specifically mentioned is concerning. It also looks like you think that those who support Nazism would be less concerned with this. Why?
I've invited you to make a Nazi conspiracy thread multiple times. This isn't the place for it. This seems like the only part of this story that relates to Ukraine, so I'm trying to discuss it. Please explain.
I dont owe further discussion to people who intentionally and repeatedly misrepresent things that I have said.
I have already responded as clearly as possible. I dont think that hiding the identities of Nazi war criminals in an effort to help Ukraine is a "good thing." maybe you do, maybe you dont. I dont really care.
If I've mirepresented you it was not intentionally. Explain how else to read those words that you wrote.
ofc it is sensible for Canada to whitewash its history of immigrating and hiding and collaborating with Post WW2 Nazis.
why does it matter today? well what to do they say about those who ignore history?
but to refrain from being trite for a moment, one reason is to find out what sort of influence these people had in Canadian and Western society over the last 80 years and what sort of legacies they have left.
its not a conspiracy, its right there in the open reported by a center right mainstream
These are great reasons to release this information. Let's tie it back to Ukraine though. The reason given not to release it is because Russia would use it as propaganda against Ukraine. Ukraine is currently the victim of the largest imperialist invasion since Hitler and Stalin launched WW2. There were neo-nazi paramilitary organizations used by Russia to attack Ukraine in 2014. There are still neo-nazi units attacking Ukrainians at this moment.
Putin’s actions including mass executions, torture, forced deportations, and indiscriminate attacks on civilians, are precisely the kinds of horrors that we condemn Nazis for, and Ukrainians are facing this reality today. Why would releasing this data right now take precedence over helping Ukraine fight off this blatantly Naziesque invasion? Delaying it until the war is over does not seem like an unreasonable thing to me.
holy your stupid nazis have mostly been extinct since 1945. whatever fascist or racists you claim are in Ukraine are not nazis and have no connection to ww2 solders who are 100 years old btw. weaponizing outdated terms is not cool vic
holy your stupid nazis have mostly been extinct since 1945. whatever fascist or racists you claim are in Ukraine are not nazis and have no connection to ww2 solders who are 100 years old btw. weaponizing outdated terms is not cool vic
you may be right. but Canada seems to disagree with you according to the "Globe and Mail" article that I linked.
Bluegrass,
If Trump is able to negotiate an end to the war where Russia keeps the land they already captured, but Ukraine isn't forced to cap their military and some sort of buffer zone with a peace force is established (like the one in Lebanon, but not useless); do you think this would be acceptable?
If you don't think it is acceptable that is fine. I dont even know if Putin would be willing to do this. I am just curious where your thoughts are.
ofc it is sensible for Canada to whitewash its history of immigrating and hiding and collaborating with Post WW2 Nazis.
why does it matter today? well what to do they say about those who ignore history?
but to refrain from being trite for a moment, one reason is to find out what sort of influence these people had in Canadian and Western society over the last 80 years and what sort of legacies they have left.
its not a conspiracy, its right there in the open reported by a center right mainstream
So the article is talking about names from WWII?
If so I think you have a point but seems also reasonable to not release due to ruining descendents lives like grandchildren. It's highly unlikely the grandchildren are also Nazis. They may still be proud of their German heritage but they're just normal Canadian citizens at this point, they could easily get put on a hiring blacklist or similar for something completely out of their control.
Now if it is talking about WWII immigrants I have no idea why Ukraine is even brought up in the headline unless a decent amount of those Nazi immigrants were Ukrainian Nazis. Then Russian propaganda would have something to run with.
I dont know much about Gabbard other than what the MSM says about her, but I was curious why she is being regarded as a "Russian plant" warmonger. I keep reading this is the case, but without really explaining why. Anyways, this Newsweek article seems to sum up what she has actually said.
--Gabbard had asserted, accurately, that the U.S. funds bio labs in Ukraine, but she did not mention bio weapons labs.
--On another occasion Gabbard expressed what seemed to be support for Russian President Vladimir Putin, tweeting: "Al-Qaeda attacked us on 9/11 and must be defeated. Obama won't bomb them in Syria. Putin did."
--In a video message on Twitter in 2022, Gabbard said: Dear Presidents Putin, Zelensky, and Biden. It's time to put geopolitics aside and embrace the spirit of aloha, respect and love, for the Ukrainian people by coming to an agreement that Ukraine will be a neutral country-- no military alliance with NATO or Russia—and therefore alleviate the legitimate security concerns of both US and NATO countries as well as Russia, because there would be no Russian or NATO troops on each other's non-Baltic borders. This would allow the Ukrainian people to live in peace."
--Gabbard also accused Vice President Kamala Harris in October of being the "main instigator" in starting the Russia-Ukraine war and said that her foreign policy had brought the U.S. to "the brink of World War III."
--The last highlighted point is really the only thing that I think could be argued as "pro Putin" and even that requires a very uncharitable viewpoint. But she made that comment recently in the middle of the campaign, and she had been called a "Russian plant" (or some variation of this) long before the comment.
I have no clue whether she would be a good pick for Director of National Intelligence. Independent of her views the resume seems a little on the light side. But regardless, it isn't obvious she is a "pro Putin" warmonger. It seems if anything she might push a peace plan that some might argue is too favorable to Putin. But hard to argue she should be called a pro Putin warmonger because of this.
you may be right. but Canada seems to disagree with you according to the "Globe and Mail" article that I linked.
who is Canada? i am canada. "alleged war criminals" alleged by who? probably Russia. There was hundreds of thousands alleged war criminals two decades ago. Now theres only like 10k left. Why do you care now? Could it be propaganda ?
Do you know what the word alleged means. it means its not proven. so you don't release it because you are innocent untill proven guilty
So the article is talking about names from WWII?
If so I think you have a point but seems also reasonable to not release due to ruining descendents lives like grandchildren. It's highly unlikely the grandchildren are also Nazis. They may still be proud of their German heritage but they're just normal Canadian citizens at this point, they could easily get put on a hiring blacklist or similar for something completely out of their control.
Now if it is talking about WWII immigrants I have no idea why
these "alleged war criminals" were pardoned over 60 years ago lol. They have nothing to do with Ukraine anymore. its a weird hill to die on and of the 900 a small fraction are probably even from Ukraine/ Probably alot of russians too
I dont know much about Gabbard other than what the MSM says about her, but I was curious why she is being regarded as a "Russian plant" warmonger. I keep reading this is the case, but without really explaining why. Anyways, this Newsweek article seems to sum up what she has actually said.
--Gabbard had asserted, accurately, that the U.S. funds bio labs in Ukraine, but she did not mention bio weapons labs.
--O
I love her tweet telling Putin and Zelensky to embrace the aloha spirit.
these "alleged war criminals" were pardoned over 60 years ago lol. They have nothing to do with Ukraine anymore. its a weird hill to die on and of the 900 a small fraction are probably even from Ukraine/ Probably alot of russians too
Feels like the dumb headline give more ammo to Russian propaganda than the actual story does.
these "alleged war criminals" were pardoned over 60 years ago lol. They have nothing to do with Ukraine anymore. its a weird hill to die on and of the 900 a small fraction are probably even from Ukraine/ Probably alot of russians too
I realize the link does not work anymore. heres the unpaywalled version.
I dont think they were pardoned. just not prosecuted. they were alleged as war criminals by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desch%C3%A...
I think the influence of these people should be public. did they:
-run for office
-serve in bureaucracy
-start or work for charities
-start or work for NGOs
-work in education
-work in media
-work for things like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_t...)
how much influence did these people have? why does weak Ukrainian War propaganda supersede the possible influence of these people in society?
"why does weak Ukrainian War propaganda supersede the possible influence of these people in society?"
it doesn't. These were kept from the public before the Ukraine war. since 1986 apparently.
Source you.
