Of Course You Know What "Woke" Means
The title for this thread was stolen from the Freddie deBoer blog/article quoted and linked below. I couldn't come up with anything better, so why not. According to Wikipedia: DeBoer identifies himself as a "Marxist of an old-school variety." I don't know anything about him that extends beyond that and the two blog posts I've read. Now, let's get to it.
I could go on. And some will disagree with this or that. But whether you think this is an accurate portrayal of the kind of politics that became dominant in progressive circles in the last 10-12 years, something happened. Something changed. Of course something changed! I find it so, so bizarre that people still insist that nothing much changed in progressive discourse or politics in that time period. Go back and read stuff that was getting published in liberal outlets in 2010 and tell me it’s the same. Come on. Give me a break. Grow up.
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/202304040135...
If you're going to jump into this conversion, please read the the blog post. That way we'll be, at least somewhat, on the same page, and hopefully the conversation won't devolve too much.
In another thread, someone shared that they were planning on voting for Trump (even thought they don't like him) because the Democratic party has shifted so far to the left. Their response was simply dismissed, and someone else pointed out why that's a problem. If you don't think "woke" ideology is driving people into Trumps arms, then you're not thinking clearly. Are those Trump voters misguided? Maybe. But they're not all the morons and monsters they're made out to be. Does "woke"— ambiguously defined — get a bad rap? Sometimes, sure. So, what are your thoughts on "woke"?
You can't wake up, if you've never been to sleep!
Before I forget, here's an example of the problems addressed in the "Science Wars" video playing out on stream with an influencer.
Dude, can you get rid of this annoying habit you have of spamming the same post in multiple threads please? I'm not even sure that's allowed.
Save The Kids
Right out of the john stewart playbook. outraged, incredulous, total certainty, totally uninformed
Right out of the john stewart playbook. outraged, incredulous, total certainty, totally uninformed
Oliver is no Stewart. While Stewart definitely has his biases and bad takes, he's funny and actually cares. Just look at the work he he's done for 9/11 first responders and his reaction after receiving an FDNY first responder's coat. Oliver doesn't really have jokes. He's just loud and angry, and his deep dives are more misleading than MSNBC on their worst day.
Jesus he is good at talking to a public, scary good
Don't believe stupid **** and you won't eventually be held politically accountable for believing stupid ****.
It's really that simple. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez deleted her 'gender pronouns' from her Twitter bio recently, for reasons having to do with the sorts of open discussions that wouldn't be allowed on 2+2, but are being had everywhere in Left Wing strategy circles as we speak.
If we can accept "Matt Gaetz venmo'ing prostitutes implies he's too stupid for high stakes governance" is a true statement, we can also accept "Left wingers who thought Hispanic and Black families would embrace their kids becoming transgendered as long as we promise them preferred access to government jobs (or whatever the carrot is; welfare, etc)" infers just as much stupidity.
The problem with the really far left (distinct from "Democrats"), who were clearly at the reigns of power for the years ourPresident had serious dementia, is they're so delusional and naive in worldview- and so utterly convinced in their belief that they're 'good' while anyone else is 'bad'- that they literally had to get Donald Trump reelected to figure out the whole force fed LQBTQIA+-mania was repellant to the sorts of people who actually do stuff in life and aren't career college students.
The far left is literally dumb and always has been, but they're incredibly dangerous when they manage to build a coalition of losers large enough to seize political power in a formerly functional Democratic system.
"Sorry guys, we tried. You can still be weird, but you gotta do it own your own time without any government sanction."
That's all the mainstream dems need to say, and then we never speak of any of this nonsense again. Of course, whoever delivers this news at the podium will immediately be lambasted for using a gendered term toward the group.
The DNC will be able to pivot away from this entirely for the next cycle. There's going to be plenty of Trump shenanigans to focus on without feeling the need to sit atop their perceived moral high horse and beat people over the head with their club of self-righteousness.
We've gone from "deplorables" to accusing people of being literal nazis in under a decade. There's not much room beyond that to escalate the rhetoric, so a major strategy rework is in order.
"Sorry guys, we tried. You can still be weird, but you gotta do it own your own time without any government sanction."
That's all the mainstream dems need to say, and then we never speak of any of this nonsense again. Of course, whoever delivers this news at the podium will immediately be lambasted for using a gendered term toward the group.
The DNC will be able to pivot away from this entirely for the next cycle. There's going to be plenty of Trump shenanigans to focus on without feeling the n
All true, however memory dies slowly in the internet era and next cycle, there will still be a majority of (D)’s who in one way or another were party to this.
- and won’t be able to “… no no no see what we REALLY meant was…” their way out of it. This last election just stamped it.
Harris got punished by targeted ads using footage from her from 2019-2020 basically.
I don't know what democrats response to the fact that they can be described as extremists even if they try to appear centrist can be in the future.
I don't think they have any person who is exempt from having defended some culturally radical leftist position in the recent past.
We've gone from "deplorables" to accusing people of being literal nazis in under a decade. There's not much room beyond that to escalate the rhetoric, so a major strategy rework is in order.
Stop making excuses for the guy saying Nazi are fine people and using language directly from Hitler's political manifesto if you want the analogies to stop. Acting like you are blameless is ridiculous.
Stop making excuses for the guy saying Nazi are fine people and using language directly from Hitler's political manifesto if you want the analogies to stop. Acting like you are blameless is ridiculous.
This is a common stupidity-fallacy that should be called out whenever encountered.
Ideas aren't captive to whoever expressed them.
If Hitler said "I like pie", that doesn't mean you're Hitler for also liking pie.
It also means you're 'not smart' for needing this basic logic explained.
So the problem isn't "THEY SAID STUFF THAT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT HITLER SAID!!". The problem is more like "why are AI translated Hitler speeches resonating so strongly with todays youth on Twitter who feel like he's addressing the sorts of problems they're seeing in their culture, have struggled to put their finger on and are totally shocked at how exactly similar his concerns about German culture in the 1920's and 30's were to their concerns today" ?
That's a question you probably don't even dare approach, but it's happening.
Donald Trump got reelected. What cultural shifts took place for that to happen and why?
Exactly.
Stop making excuses for the guy saying Nazi are fine people and using language directly from Hitler's political manifesto if you want the analogies to stop. Acting like you are blameless is ridiculous.
I've never heard him say "Nazis are fine people". This misinformation is exactly what the Don is going after.
All true, however memory dies slowly in the internet era and next cycle, there will still be a majority of (D)’s who in one way or another were party to this.
- and won’t be able to “… no no no see what we REALLY meant was…” their way out of it. This last election just stamped it.
And people wonder why Trump is back in office.
To me "woke" is the attempt to normalize that which is not close to normal. It is an attempt to mainstream that which should not be in the mainstream.
This is a common stupidity-fallacy that should be called out whenever encountered.
Ideas aren't captive to whoever expressed them.
If Hitler said "I like pie", that doesn't mean you're Hitler for also liking pie.
It also means you're 'not smart' for needing this basic logic explained.
So the problem isn't "THEY SAID STUFF THAT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT HITLER SAID!!". The problem is more like "why are AI translated Hitler speeches resonating so strongly with todays youth on Twitter who feel like he's addre
"Immigrants poisoning the blood of the nation" is "AI translated Hitler speeches resonating with youth" rather than just a verbatim quote from a historical translation of Mein Kampf? Interesting, didn't know that.
Yes, xenophobia has always existed. Populists and demagogues demonising out groups and blaming them for the problems of the in group have always existed. Hitler did it to the jews, Trump is using the same language to do it to immigrants. Not sure what point you're trying to make. That it's OK because it's been done before?
"Immigrants poisoning the blood of the nation" is "AI translated Hitler speeches resonating with youth" rather than just a verbatim quote from a historical translation of Mein Kampf? Interesting, didn't know that.
Yes, xenophobia has always existed. Populists and demagogues demonising out groups and blaming them for the problems of the in group have always existed. Hitler did it to the jews, Trump is using the same language to do it to immigrants. Not sure what point you're trying to make. That i
Its pretty much the most straightforward way to express the reasoning of ethno-nationalism, which Hitler was big on for Germany and Germans. I'd wager "immigrants poisoning the blood of the nation" could be cited MUCH earlier than Hitler.
That's how ideas tend to work.
Xenophobia has always existed, as has fear of tigers and drowning.
Things that occupy a permanent place in the human psyche are usually rooted in something more than political mythology. The question is whether or not the 'xenophobic' native citizens complaints are valid, which is where the left loses the plot since their entire political view is "we're right and fighting for what's good and they're bad and fighting for what's wrong therefore what they say is bad and wrong and what we say is good and right" as their entire position.
When someone from a small midwestern town flooded with Haitian economic migrants starts complaining about rapidly deteriorating quality of life, only to be told what they're seeing is all a myth and statistics show they're community has actually been MADE SAFER AND MORE PROSPEROUS! because of it, it engenders a sort of hatred you probably don't understand.
They'd vote for Trump (or Hitler)
Its pretty much the most straightforward way to express the reasoning of ethno-nationalism, which Hitler was big on for Germany and Germans. I'd wager "immigrants poisoning the blood of the nation" could be cited MUCH earlier than Hitler.
That's how ideas tend to work.
Xenophobia has always existed, as has fear of tigers and drowning.
Things that occupy a permanent place in the human psyche are usually rooted in something more than political mythology. The question is whether or not the 'xenophobi
Sounds like what you're saying is that Trump, like Hitler, is tapping into the primitive xenophobic instincts (which may nonetheless be rooted in rationality) of his base, using the same incendiary and dehumanising rhetoric to do so, and the people it appeals to would vote for Hitler. I thought your original issue was we shouldn't be comparing him to Hitler? If I've summarised your post accurately, sounds like you agree they have a lot in common.
