5/5 Bet/check/bet as a bluff

5/5 Bet/check/bet as a bluff

5/5

$400 effective

BB - I recently switched tables and saw this guy for the first time. Based on his shallow stack, he doesn’t seem like a strong player.
~60 y o white guy.

Hero(HJ) 67 raises to $20, BB calls

Flop($45) K J 9

x, Hero bets $15, BB calls

Turn($70) 2

x x

River($70) 5

x, Hero - ?

How should we play the junk part of our range? For example, here I only have a few combos of total trash, but I’m not sure what the best play is with those.

Once I decide to c-bet almost 100% of hands here, I’m basically stuck between double-barreling or bet/check/bet

19 November 2024 at 09:27 AM
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21 Replies



I don't think you'd play any big value hands this way, as you would want to get value from the pairs and pair+draws, which there are 900 combos of. He will probably be pretty suspicious and I wouldn't really expect him to ever fold top pair. I guess you are trying to fold out some stuff like A-10 9-10 88 and maybe even an occasional a bad jack. You could bet $25, which looks a little like AJ or something and will at least fold the draws and maybe some pairs.


If you're taking a b-x-b line with AK-KT I'm guessing your river size would be around $40, which would target QJ-JT, even a stubborn Q9-T9. Maybe you barrel QT on the turn, but I'm not sure that you'd bet it on the river for value, even if you bet flop with it and checked turn. So, sigh betting $50+ as a bluff to fold out non Kx pairs and random Tx. I don't believe giving-up on river is terrible but could be wrong.


Without any reads on the opponent, river is an easy check back.


I feel like betting $15(OTF) needs to have some follow-through later on. Otherwise, it might be better to adjust the strategy, either check the flop or go for a bigger bet OTF.


by Bellezza k

I feel like betting $15(OTF) needs to have some follow-through later on. Otherwise, it might be better to adjust the strategy, either check the flop or go for a bigger bet OTF.

The flop smashes you range. It's fine to bet on the flop, and then give up if called.


You have 7 high so yeah I would bet 50 or so. The guy could have hands like AT, or even T8, T7, Q8, etc since people underbluff hands they should be bluffing river with. And he can have power pocket pairs, 9x, etc that may fold.


I prefer to check back that flop and bet turn, i get thst it smashes your range but who cares, he will check turn if he doesnt have a K and you can take it down on turn or river.

but yeah fire river like $60.

Im basically fine with any line that involves betting river (bxb, bbb, xbb, xxb)


by Bellezza k

I feel like betting $15(OTF) needs to have some follow-through later on. Otherwise, it might be better to adjust the strategy, either check the flop or go for a bigger bet OTF.

I bet a strong range (3street value on good runout) with big sizing on this flop.

Imo this isn't a good flop for range betting.

Flop should connect very well with both of your ranges, you shouldn't have a big range advantage here, and depending on how often you opr QTo and/or how often villain defend QTo you maybe don't even have a nut advantage.

But I agree with posters above me, you have 7high and as played you should probably bet something close to 2/3ps to fold out all higher nonpair hands, and to some frequency 9x and lower pairs.


by Pronto k

I bet a strong range (3street value on good runout) with big sizing on this flop.

Imo this isn't a good flop for range betting.

Flop should connect very well with both of your ranges, you shouldn't have a big range advantage here, and depending on how often you opr QTo and/or how often villain defend QTo you maybe don't even have a nut advantage.

But I agree with posters above me, you have 7high and as played you should probably bet something close to 2/3ps to fold out all higher nonpair hands, an

This reads like a list of non-sequiturs, and none of them really make sense.

This flop smashes Hero's range, not the BB's range. Also, I have no idea why you're focusing on one crappy hand (QTo) to see who may have a nut advantage. Moreover, even betting 2/3 pot likely won't knock out hands that have connected with this flop, although betting 1/3 pot will clear out Villain's crappier holdings that may still have significant equity.


I just checked GTO, and 76s mixes check and bet otf, and mixes check and bet ott, but pure bets the river on every line except bbb (it bets a bit more than it checks on this line as well). So yeah, the thing i said before.


Grunch:

PRE - seems fine.

FLOP - seems fine.

TURN - I dunno.

I'd think he'd donk the flop with KX+, to protect his hand from draws. When he flat calls, I'm thinking he's either got a weak top pair or worse, or he flopped the joint with QT and is happy to let you do his betting for him.

My usual MO would be to barrel here, but the stacks are so shallow, and this type of V can be pretty sticky once they enter a pot, I might just check it back and see if he bets river.

RIVER - Either give up and check back (my preferred option, I think), or over-bet to like $120, if you think he's got a fold button, and isn't tilted.

If your read is he's a bad player, and he's on a short stack, I probably wouldn't screw around trying to bluff him off any pair. We put $35 into the pot. We can let it go and save our ammo for a future battle.


by Bellezza k

I feel like betting $15(OTF) needs to have some follow-through later on. Otherwise, it might be better to adjust the strategy, either check the flop or go for a bigger bet OTF.

At this stack depth, with this hand, on this board, against this V, I'm fine checking back the flop, and making a delayed c-bet on the turn if he checks again.

I'd rather go x-b-b then b-x-b. I really hate the big flop c-bet with air.

If you're going to range bet flop, then maybe we can bet small again on the turn, like $30, and then size up for the river, like 1.5x pot. If we take that sort of line, we're repping QT, and probably only getting called by TPTK+, unless V is just terrible or insanely sticky.


id fold pre because i feel like this hand probably just adds unnecessary variance without contributing to profit, but w/e.

i think check back flop and bet turn is a good line here because most of your hands actually should be checking back this flop alot.


I think our best chance of getting folds is checking down to river and betting if he triple checks. No one really takes that line as a bluff and if he has anything he would likely bet turn or river.


This flop is good for your range, but it also with 3 high cards hits his range. It isn't a good board to bluff on. I don't know if 1/3 pot on the flop gets through often at all. I guess bluff the river, even though you are not representing a strong hand, because you have 7-high and he could have missed draws or whatever.

Preflop is OK. It does give some deception / board coverage to have that in your range. Folding is also OK.


What is your range for b/x/b. It's difficult to have value here, esp. for a size that makes Jx think about folding.
IME 55 would be your best value hand and then it mostly drops off to maybe KT but often not even that good.

On the other side "I haz range and bluff everything; oops I got called so I check a brick; oops I have complete air, so I guess I bluff again now" happens a decent amount of the time.


by deuceblocker k

This flop is good for your range, but it also with 3 high cards hits his range. It isn't a good board to bluff on. I don't know if 1/3 pot on the flop gets through often at all.

Betting flop is ok since you fold out some pocker-pairs and maybe some Ax. But, then, I don't believe we should bluff flop in a "one and done" way. If we decide to bet flop we need to plan for a turn or river bluff. Aside from a or T,8,7 or 6 our equity won't improve on the turn, so I think we can say only bet flop if we're prepared to bet non-broadway turns that don't improve our equity. Now relooking at the hand I prefer a larger c-bet and then 100%ish on the brick turn.


This is a really bad flop to bluff. It may favor the raiser and you have 7-high, but it is a wet 3 high card flop. Cbetting 1/3 pot and giving up is probably fine. You could also check and then bet the turn or river.

I don't mind not putting any more in also. Fine to just let the $20 go. There are plenty of good flops to bluff on as well as some that you hit. I think it would be pretty bad to fire 3 barrels with 7-high on a wet board like this.

Bet/check/bet works when an ace or king hits on the river or something like that. It doesn't make sense at all here when a wet board bricks out.


Small cbet, check turn, bluff is a line I just don’t like, I pretty much don’t ever take it and certainly not on this type of runout. If I do take this line it’s against a weak player when a scare card hits.

Against this player type we can probably get him off the hand often enough anyways with a bet of 55, but I’d personally just check and give up as played. Looking for a bluff here is pushing a thin edge and we probably don’t need to do that to win villains stack during the session.

If villain shows up here with like K8o or J7o or some trash hand, that’s valuable info and we’re conditioning him to call cbets when we have value which is how you bust short stacks.


I just don't understand why you would check and lose to all the tens, Qs and maybe sometimes 88. It's a BB and we bet so small on the flop.

Some would call with AT, some might fold 9T. But anyway, he could have stuff down to T7o T6s QXs.


by ES2 k

I just don't understand why you would check and lose to all the tens, Qs and maybe sometimes 88. It's a BB and we bet so small on the flop.

Some would call with AT, some might fold 9T. But anyway, he could have stuff down to T7o T6s QXs.

Fine to bet small to get him to fold a higher no pair. He isn't going to think you have 7-high. Technically he should bluff missed draws, etc., but may not. However, like 2/3 pot is losing because he shouldn't fold like 2nd pair. A big bet doesn't represent much or make sense.

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