The "LOLCANADA" thread...again
So what's new?
I've noticed the Liberals are now ahead in all major polls and Trudeau hasn't even started to campaign yet...i'd be shocked if they lost the election now.
Just shows just how incompetent Conservatives are.
You starting going on the "****ing dipshit" lines - that isn't really like you so it sure seems like you are conveying more anger than you used to.
Second, none of your points have any relevance to my frustration with JT. Like, when have I ever uttered a single word about inflation being a reason JT needs to go? Not everyone who has had enough of JT is at that point because of silliness like "durr, eggs cost more, get rid of current government".
I didn't say anything about you personally. I'm saying that over the last year where Trudeau sunk in the polls, there hasn't been any really significant policy changes that justify such a swing, but I think that inflation absolutely has been the primary lever that lost Trudeau support in the polls, that led to Trump in the US, and several other countries. It is very hard for incumbent government to survive a high inflation environment even when very little of it is "their fault" (for example the carbon tax is responsible for 1/38th of the food price inflation over the last 5 years).
Then when you add in the deficit ballooning from $40 billion to $61 billion+, which I understand doesn't even include the $4.5 billion for the $250 "rebate", I can't see him out the door fast enough.
Did you actually go into the details of the FES? One of the biggest factors (15 billion or so) was accrediting in this year future liabilities regarding indigenous court cases, so basically money that has NOT been spent now but is going into an accounting fund because there is this liability. It's actually a bit of a gift to Poilievre who won't have to deal with this out of his own budgets. Most of the rest of the difference is actually in lower-than-expected revenues, again not present spending. All of this leaves us about where we started - pretty decent deficit and debt numbers as compared to the g7.
Had he read the tea leaves and left a year or two ago, it's even possible that Poilievre and his simplistic "common sense" culture war talking points would be falling flat and we could continue making progress in this country. Or at the very least, the best he could hope for would be a minority government. But because of JT's arrogance and/or stubbornness, he's driving the Liberal bus right off a cliff. I'm sure they'll recover eventually, but not in time for this election, and definitely not while JT is still driving.
Meh. Maybe. Maybe not. I'd say it is EXTREMELY hard for any minority government to say look we're down in the polls a bit we should call an election now and hand over the reigns to the opposition a year early because of bad polls. I don't know a single example in politics where that actually happens. If you want to excoriate him for "arrogance" because they dared to try and turn the bus around and it didn't work fine, I guess, but it is hard to imagine any political leader doing differently. I've never been remotely convinced that the "trudeau resigns and tries to find a new leader" trick was ever going to work either.
For me the biggest issues currently are fiscal responsibility, healthcare and affordability . All 3 things the current government is screwing up.
You can MAYBE argue on behalf of fiscal responsibility (but probably will screw up), but what on earth possible reason makes you think poilievre is going to be better on healthcare. The guy basically refused to talk about it. Just this week he was directly asked whether he would or would not support the expanding dental care programs - absolutely refuses to answer. Same with pharmacare - no plan, no indication he will do a single thing. Now of course healthcare is a primarily provincial jurisdiction which makes including it on this list pretty funny, but actually along the edges the federal government has made a series of improvements to healthcare that are hard to imagine the conservatives ever doing.
"Affordability" isn't much better. Ok you can blame the carbon tax for ....checks notes....1/38th of the inflation of food prices over the last 5 years. If you want. But the Trudeau government has massively expanded supports for seniors in at least 4 major programs, massively helped anything to do with kids and the CCB, lowered middle income taxes for everyone, and when he HAS raised taxes it is on the uber rich. It's hard to even imagine what you could make up that Poilievre will actually do that he has actually committeed to, I guess just propaganda about the carbon tax and that is it.
Uke,
Can Trudeau win the next election ?
Can Trudeau evade a massive defeat, giving on a silver plate an overwhelming majority to conservative?
Is it in the best interest of canada to have polievre winning with a majority the next election ?
If you answer no to all 3 questions , I have no idea why you think Trudeau shouldn’t leave .
His own « VP » quit and she actually did imo quite a good job throughout the years …
Policies have no more barring on Trudeau anymore .
People are just fed up , it happens .
No, I don't think he can win or avoid a deep loss. Nor could any other liberal if they try to parachute one in. It's terrible for Canada and absolutely not in their best interest, but the mood has clearly shifted in the US and Canada. I'm sure you are right, people are just red up regardless of policies - but that's sort of my point: it is worth stating that the policies are GOOD and the direction of the country is absolutely better now than what we can predict with the little information he lets slip from Poilievre. Maybe it falls on deaf ears as everyone is too fed up after a couple years of hard inflation, but it's still important.
His "VP" stabbed him in the back for her own political interests in being the future leader, taking her pound of flesh with him, right when he was at his weaknesses. In some ways I'm team freeland on the issues, but it was a vicious move.
No, I don't think he can win or avoid a deep loss. Nor could any other liberal if they try to parachute one in. It's terrible for Canada and absolutely not in their best interest, but the mood has clearly shifted in the US and Canada. I'm sure you are right, people are just red up regardless of policies - but that's sort of my point: it is worth stating that the policies are GOOD and the direction of the country is absolutely better now than what we can predict with the little information he let
No Trudeau was terrible for Canada both domestically and on the national stage .
Please the lady was his strongest ally in 9 years all she did was question his GST break and $250 checks. If anybody did the stabbing it was Justin
Lets face it Trudeau likes women that fall into place. Every strong women in his cabinet that has called him out in public or private he has fired
No, I don't think he can win or avoid a deep loss. Nor could any other liberal if they try to parachute one in. It's terrible for Canada and absolutely not in their best interest, but the mood has clearly shifted in the US and Canada. I'm sure you are right, people are just red up regardless of policies - but that's sort of my point: it is worth stating that the policies are GOOD and the direction of the country is absolutely better now than what we can predict with the little information he let
Nop I disagree, she just showed him where is at in reality .
but it’s ok to disagree .
FWIW , maybe it’s a big poker bluff but I wonder what trump would actually do with his « weak » threats of tariffs if Justin would just step down before trump inauguration?
If his threats was just a leverage play to deal something , he couldn’t deal much anymore since he would have no one to deal with lol.
Would he be crazy enough to put 25% tariffs just for fun and losing his bargaining chip ?
It would be hilarious to see him in that situation having too wait like 3-4 months until a new leader is voted in for the next election cycle ….
Btw the funny thing is , Canada wouldn’t even need to retaliate , the U.S. dollar so strong there isn’t any much incentive for Canadians to buy much American now anyway 😀 .
And with those tariffs at the level Canadian dollar is , U.S. consumers would still buy without much difference …not affecting much the sales of business here .
Clearly showing his brillant tariffs being used on non economics issues is irrelevant beside making U.S. consumers pay more .
It would be just trump fighting trump showing how stupid an idea it was to begin with …
Please the lady was his strongest ally in 9 years all she did was question his GST break and $250 checks.
Oh please, you can't actually think this was about some minor policy disagreement. She clearly wants to be a future liberal leader and stuck the knife in AND TWISTED at a moment of weakness, doing it in the most harmful possible way with zero advanced notice. Trying to frame it as caring about fiscal responsibility is precisely the type of thing you do when you want to run on that later.
You starting going on the "****ing dipshit" lines - that isn't really like you so it sure seems like you are conveying more anger than you used to.
I just find it extremely aggravating/frustrating that he's either this blind or just doesn't care about the fate of the party. I wouldn't call it anger, but I don't need to split hairs.
Fair enough. When your short post starts with "You seem angrier than usual." and ends with "The anger is misplaced.", I assumed the latter was directed at me. If you meant the public's anger, I'd agree that some of it is.
I'm saying that over the last year where Trudeau sunk in the polls, there hasn't been any really significant policy changes that justify such a swing, but I think that inflation absolutely has been the primary lever that lost Trudeau support in the polls, that led to Trump in the US, and several other countries. It is very hard for incumbent government to survive a high inflation environment even when very little of it is "their fault" (for example the carbon tax is responsible for 1/38th of the
Yes, anger at JT for inflation is a little silly. And yes, the inflation puts the Liberals at a somewhat unfair disadvantage, as it has for many other parties around the world.
Did you actually go into the details of the FES? One of the biggest factors (15 billion or so) was accrediting in this year future liabilities regarding indigenous court cases, so basically money that has NOT been spent now but is going into an accounting fund because there is this liability. It's actually a bit of a gift to Poilievre who won't have to deal with this out of his own budgets. Most of the rest of the difference is actually in lower-than-expected revenues, again not present spending
I'll bring this back to the GST holiday and rebate nonsense again. What I find aggravating is that there couldn't be much of a worse time to spend $6.5 billion on a tax holiday/rebate that does very little for most people it's given to, than when they're on the eve of announcing an increase in this year's deficit of over 50%. I don't disagree that we're doing decently in the G7 - I'd argue we should be striving for better than that, but yes, we're doing OK there. But just like inflation, it doesn't matter what you and I think - it's what the electorate as a whole thinks that matters here. It should be exceedingly obvious to everyone that the Liberals have no hope of winning the next election with JT at the helm. Or for that matter, improving their results from what they'd be if an election were to be held right now. Every day he stays, things get worse for them.
Meh. Maybe. Maybe not. I'd say it is EXTREMELY hard for any minority government to say look we're down in the polls a bit we should call an election now and hand over the reigns to the opposition a year early because of bad polls. I don't know a single example in politics where that actually happens. If you want to excoriate him for "arrogance" because they dared to try and turn the bus around and it didn't work fine, I guess, but it is hard to imagine any political leader doing differently.
I don't think you've understood my point, so perhaps I wasn't being clear. I wasn't suggesting he should have called an election early, but that he should have stepped down back when a new leader might have had a chance to really turn things around.
Here's what I care about. In general, my political leanings very much side with the Liberals. In certain circumstances, I have on occasion voted for the Conservatives in the past, but I really, really don't care for Poilievre and his populist "common sense" culture war nonsense. Therefore, I find it very aggravating to watch JT driving voters into PP's camp.
I've never been remotely convinced that the "trudeau resigns and tries to find a new leader" trick was ever going to work either.
Well, I won't claim to know for certain that it would have. Lots of factors at play here, like when they made a leadership change, who the new leader was, and if said new leader changed direction on anything. But what I do feel certain about is that no one else would have done any worse with the voters. Whether it's fair or not, JT is completely and utterly unable to turn this ship around, and has been for quite some time.
Oh please, you can't actually think this was about some minor policy disagreement. She clearly wants to be a future liberal leader and stuck the knife in AND TWISTED at a moment of weakness, doing it in the most harmful possible way with zero advanced notice. Trying to frame it as caring about fiscal responsibility is precisely the type of thing you do when you want to run on that later.
If this is true, it seems like pretty poor timing, in that she's a year or two too late. I think she's far too tied at the hip with JT in people's minds now. But sometimes people have short memories, so maybe she'll prove me wrong.
I'll finish up this rather lengthy post by coming back to this:
Especially if Singh's call for him to resign means he won't support a non-confidence motion if dipshit resigns, because that's their only hope to put a new leader in place in time for some leadup to the election. If he refuses to go and Singh finally goes along with non-confidence (and the Bloc supports), then they're in a world of hurt. Of course they're in that world anyway, but with new leadership they might be able to save a few regions. If they're forced out with Trudeau still hanging on, i
Annnnd now here we are.
Oh please, you can't actually think this was about some minor policy disagreement. She clearly wants to be a future liberal leader and stuck the knife in AND TWISTED at a moment of weakness, doing it in the most harmful possible way with zero advanced notice. Trying to frame it as caring about fiscal responsibility is precisely the type of thing you do when you want to run on that later.
I heard she was already ejected by Trudeau but he ask her to do the budget thing anyway ….
So she just decided to quit altogether and the vice position too .
He wasn’t listening anymore it seem in the budget shrug.
Trudeau is not perfect .
I wasn't suggesting he should have called an election early, but that he should have stepped down back when a new leader might have had a chance to really turn things around.
This is super, super rare. All sorts of political leaders in all sorts of parties in all sorts of countries get down on in polls. Like Harper. But nobody realistically suggested Harper should step aside for a new party leader despite being way down in the polls and destined to lose. I think the most recent example of this at least in Canada is actually Pierre Trudeau, ironically enough. He ALSO waited until late into his last term, then did resign and a couple months later his replacement Turner was absolutely demolished by Mulroney. That shouldn't be a model anyone - least of all his son - would want to emulate. It's a counterfactual, so we can't know, but as much as I sympathize with this pipe dream of Trudeau stepping down and I guess Freeland or Carney or whatever taking over and somehow saving us from Poilievre, I don't think it was ever something likely, and I'm not going to excoriate Trudeau for not wanting to roll the dice on it.
I just find it extremely aggravating/frustrating that he's either this blind or just doesn't care about the fate of the party. I wouldn't call it anger, but I don't need to split hairs.
That he is "blind" seems preposterous - he obviously knows the the polls as well as anyone. And I doubt "doesn't care about the fate of the party" is accurate. I think the PMO thinks (as do I) that Trudeau doing some trick of proroguing the government and having a snap leadership debate and running that person is going to do not a single thing at helping the party. That isn't not caring, maybe there is some level of hubris to it. And I think the PMO genuinely believes their policy suite is good for the country and that Poilievre is a big danger, and that it is better to ride it out hoping to entrench dental care and pharmacare and $10 a day daycare and all the housing accelerator funds etc etc as long as possible. I get that it is in vogue to hate on Trudeau, but absent some ability to read his inner most thoughts, I think trying to set up some fake blind vs doesn't care narrative and getting all frustrated by that when it can be completely explained by people just disagreeing on what the best options are is silly.
I'll bring this back to the GST holiday and rebate nonsense again. What I find aggravating is that there couldn't be much of a worse time to spend $6.5 billion on a tax holiday/rebate that does very little for most people it's given to, than when they're on the eve of announcing an increase in this year's deficit of over 50%. I don't disagree that we're doing decently in the G7 - I'd argue we should be striving for better than that, but yes, we're doing OK there.
I'm fairly neutral on the policy itself (it IS progressive that's good, and I think a case can be made that as inflation abates this IS a time for a small wealth transfer over time). But note that the NDP (BC), the Conservatives (Ontario, Alberta) and the Liberals have ALL tried this same trick of basically a small one-time wealth transfer. Heck Poilievre literally tried the same move in 2021 of a gst christmas holiday (to be fair not yet leader)! So it's like fine, you can be aggravated that they dared to try and do some political vote buying like every other party, but it is basically a nothing burger imo.
I heard she was already ejected by Trudeau but he ask her to do the budget thing anyway ….
So she just decided to quit altogether and the vice position too .
He wasn’t listening anymore it seem in the budget shrug.
Trudeau is not perfect .
We don't know exactly. But the best I can read the reports is that he offered her BOTH continuing as deputy PM (basically #2) and a special role to head up the US trump negotiations which is very reasonable, and that Carney was to come on as finance minister. That isn't a terrible plan. Like maybe it doesn't stop the bus veering off the cliff, but it isn't unreasonable. But it would hurt her political aspirations, and she chose to maximize her own political future at the expense of Trudeau, something she can only do because of how weak he is politically right now. It's politics. Neither side is particularly praiseworthy here.
We don’t know exactly but you seem convince a lot in the second part of your answer .
FWIW in another post , there is no rolling the dice.
It a basic suicide of him and his party .
His getting crush anywhere there is an temporary election even in place where it’s been liberal for decades …..
There is no way anyone would not fare better then Trudeau at the helm of the liberal party in an election.
Again we don’t care about liberals winning at this point , but having a result post Mulroney with like 2 deputies left (1993 with Campbell at the helm) isn’t what a « good leader » would aim for ….
FWIW I’m not sure she dislike carney even if it could hurt her « political aspiration » .
Ps: u might think it’s not a big deal but being oblige to defend a budget she might not believe at all in it and quitting over it might just be an ethic principle.
Maybe there was a problem for a very long time and it was the final straw that broke the camel back .
Yes - hubris that is blinding him.
Edit to add: Hopefully that doesn't look like a misleading quote - just trying to tie your two very separate thoughts together, as I think there's a link.
I think the PMO thinks (as do I) that Trudeau doing some trick of proroguing the government and having a snap leadership debate and running that person is going to do not a single thing at helping the party.
Well, we agree on that at least. That's the issue with him continuing on to this point - now they're stuck with him leading them into an election in a few months. Had he stepped down, they could've given a new leader 8-9 months to try and rebuild things a little. Of course ideally it would've happened 6 or more months ago, but here we are. As I said:
[QUOTE=Bobo Fett]Especially if Singh's call for him to resign means he won't support a non-confidence motion if dipshit resigns, because that's their only hope to put a new leader in place in time for some leadup to the election. If he refuses to go and Singh finally goes along with non-confidence (and the Bloc supports), then they're in a world of hurt. [/QUOTE]
And I think the PMO genuinely believes their policy suite is good for the country and that Poilievre is a big danger, and that it is better to ride it out hoping to entrench dental care and pharmacare and $10 a day daycare and all the housing accelerator funds etc etc as long as possible.
If this is what he wanted, he should have resigned, so they could "ride it out hoping to entrench dental care and pharmacare and $10 a day daycare and all the housing accelerator funds etc etc as long as possible". By staying, he's walked his party into a vote of non-confidence.
I get that it is in vogue to hate on Trudeau, but absent some ability to read his inner most thoughts, I think trying to set up some fake blind vs doesn't care narrative and getting all frustrated by that when it can be completely explained by people just disagreeing on what the best options are is silly.
It's been in vogue for about 5 years now. If you think that has anything to do with my issues with him continuing, you're very mistaken. As for the latter, part I don't think it's silly at all - my belief is that if he cares about the party, which I would hope he does, he should know that him staying around isn't helping the party's fortunes, and hasn't been for some time now. So if we assume he cares, then I think he's blind to how much his unpopularity makes him the wrong person to turn things around.
That said, at this point, I'd agree it doesn't matter whether he stays or not. If there's an election in the next few months, a new leader is likely to make zero difference, and proroguing to put one in place may hurt them even more. The resignation had to come before Singh decided to join the BQ and Conservatives in bringing the government down.
I guess that is a good indication of my point. Just unbridled rage but if you read through the hate typing, there isn’t actually any substantive critique of policy it’s just accusations about “narcissism” whatever that means
Not really accusations. It is "narcissism" to think you can be the leader of a G7 nation because of your last name. Anyone with an ounce of integrity would understand this and not run.
A huge failed policy that doesn't get mentioned enough is legalizing Weed. Basically all of Trudeau's drug policies are terrible.
Also under his leadership Canada has lost its identity and patriotism. Nobody is proud to be Canadian anymore, didn't we cancel Canada day once under his reign?
Not really accusations. It is "narcissism" to think you can be the leader of a G7 nation because of your last name. Anyone with an ounce of integrity would understand this and not run.
A huge failed policy that doesn't get mentioned enough is legalizing Weed. Basically all of Trudeau's drug policies are terrible.
Also under his leadership Canada has lost its identity and patriotism. Nobody is proud to be Canadian anymore, didn't we cancel Canada day once under his reign?
I disagree on the pot issue. It hasn't done any harm other than having to deal with that skunk smell 😀 Trudeau giving BC premier the right to decriminalize the possession of all drugs was a total failure
Though I do agree there was a time were you were proud to say I am a Canadian and put a passport on your backpack. I still love Canada but there is some shame to our country now
Did Justin ensure 50% of his new cabinet were woman? That was one of his bonehead policies as well
I disagree on the pot issue. It hasn't done any harm other than having to deal with that skunk smell 😀 Trudeau giving BC premier the right to decriminalize the possession of all drugs was a total failure
Ya, only an idiot or weed head would say that. ER visits up, psychotic episodes, crime up, vehicle accidents, stoners sucking on weed pens zoned out at red lights. A terrible thing for society, the data is in, the quicker we reverse this mistake the better. Prohibition worked and I was pro weed at one time but admit I was wrong after seeing the damage it caused.
Though I do agree there was a time were you were proud to say I am a Canadian and put a passport on your backpack. I still love Canada but there is some shame to our country now
It's still not the same as it used to be. People used to get Canadian flag tattoos, we had I Am Canadian commercials. It's not that people don't love their country, the pride people had isn't there.
Ya, only an idiot or weed head would say that. ER visits up, psychotic episodes, crime up, vehicle accidents, stoners sucking on weed pens zoned out at red lights. A terrible thing for society, the data is in, the quicker we reverse this mistake the better. Prohibition worked and I was pro weed at one time but admit I was wrong after seeing the damage it caused.
It's still not the same as it used to be. People used to get Canadian flag tattoos, we had I Am Canadian commercials. It's not that pe
So you are also in favor of banning alcohol, right?
edit: flag tattoos wtf lmao lololol
Lol aren't you a decades long nicotine user? Weird to see you come out as anti-weed.
Ya, only an idiot or weed head would say that. ER visits up, psychotic episodes, crime up, vehicle accidents, stoners sucking on weed pens zoned out at red lights. A terrible thing for society, the data is in, the quicker we reverse this mistake the better. Prohibition worked and I was pro weed at one time but admit I was wrong after seeing the damage it caused.
Can you link to the "data" directly connecting it to marijuana legalization? Like one quick google is that daily users increased from 5% to 6% over the last 7 years. Is that what makes you think about this terrible thing for society??
That said, at this point, I'd agree it doesn't matter whether he stays or not. If there's an election in the next few months, a new leader is likely to make zero difference, and proroguing to put one in place may hurt them even more. The resignation had to come before Singh decided to join the BQ and Conservatives in bringing the government down.
I agree it makes zero difference today. But I also think it would have made zero difference in, say, October before the NDP switched. And I highly doubt the counterfactual of doing it even a year ago or say when Trudeau first had dropped in the polls substantially would have made a difference. I think Canadians would see a prorogument and Liberal leadership race would come off as an equally desparate attempt to cling to power, and it is VERY hard to argue an unelected PM shouldn't go for an election when down in the polls a year early (who knows if NDP has the backbone to call it, but it would seem MORE likely not less). Consider how Poilievre ALREADY brands "carbon tax carney" every time he mentions his name to tie him to the brand, of course freeland or any other cabinet minister would own 100% the liberal platform - there is just no way I see where you can swap one of those in and make it palpable.
It's a super risky gambit that seems destined to fail. Mostly in history around the world when a leader goes down in the polls they put up a good face and lose the election and only then leave politics. That's been the case in Canada regularly, and when there is an exception (Pierre Trudeau) it failed spectacularly to swap in a new guy that led to a wipe out a couple months later.
I think your frustration that Trudeau didn't do this is just entirely misplaced. Maybe you are right and it magically could have turned things around. But I highly doubt it. It would be risky. And I can't fault Trudeau one iota for not wanting to go that direction. I fault him for all kinds of things from policy to politics, but I don't really understand getting very frustrated that he dared not do a very rare gambit in politics that probably wouldn't have worked.
Nicotine and hand rolled cigars, yes. When was the last time someone had a psychotic episode or committed suicide while smoking a cigar?
Can you link to the "data" directly connecting it to marijuana legalization? Like one quick google is that daily users increased from 5% to 6% over the last 7 years. Is that what makes you think about this terrible thing for society??
Not Canada but I am sure it's similar. How is it good for society?
Ya, only an idiot or weed head would say that. ER visits up, psychotic episodes, crime up, vehicle accidents, stoners sucking on weed pens zoned out at red lights. A terrible thing for society, the data is in, the quicker we reverse this mistake the better. Prohibition worked and I was pro weed at one time but admit I was wrong after seeing the damage it caused.
LOL.
Maybe you are right and it magically could have turned things around. But I highly doubt it.
Nothing magical about it. JT is greatly disliked across the country, and has been for some time. Almost anyone would be a welcome change for most people, so I see little risk. How much worse could they do than they will in the election a few months from now with JT at the helm? Worst case, it doesn't improve their prospects, best case, they win more seats and maybe hold the Conservatives to a minority. But the upside has of course been decreasing over the last year, and is likely gone after yesterday.
But it's pretty clear we aren't going to agree on this, which is fine.
Ya, only an idiot or weed head would say that. ER visits up, psychotic episodes, crime up, vehicle accidents, stoners sucking on weed pens zoned out at red lights. A terrible thing for society, the data is in, the quicker we reverse this mistake the better. Prohibition worked and I was pro weed at one time but admit I was wrong after seeing the damage it caused.
It's still not the same as it used to be. People used to get Canadian flag tattoos, we had I Am Canadian commercials. It's not that pe
Only tried weed twice when it was illegal. The reason ER visits and crime are up is Fentanyl and 5 million CDN"s have no family doctor
