3 handed with table maniac

Wait...what?

You assumed that a player who usually limp/folds might now be planning to limp-reraise, so this leads you to call the maniac's raise with A8o?!

yeah, if i thought i played it well i wouldn't be posting 😀

don't think he was necessarily going to raise, i see that is implied by how i phrased it

what i meant was v1 called knowing full well v2 was going to make it $20 at a minimum and probably larger so he's either limp/calling or planning to reraise, mostly limp calling - same as when the guy to your left puts in $20 blind and you just opt to call the blinds and then wait for it to circle around to you to make your actual decision of calling or raising

but i didn't think for a second that my hand was better than his, was just hoping it was something like KQs or 66

but plan was to fold if V1 raised but felt like he probably would just make the call

thought did cross my mind to iso and bump it up but then i could really find myself in a pickle because he only had about $250 so i'd be "priced in" to make a bad call if he shoved - which would also force V2 to fold

Looks fine to me. No need to 3bet A8o even against a maniac, especially if there's a limper who can come over the top.

Flop is fine as well - this is rarely a bluff and more often a better Ace than a worse one

While it could be +EV to flat here preflop, especially with the drunk maniac playing, it feels so marginal. If you actually had a legitimate perception that the limper might LRR, it should have been an auto-muck.

Although I hate the expression, "...I wanted to wait for a better opportunity," with this maniac the next train will likely arrive fairly soon.

I get that the flop minraise is more likely to be a better Ace than a worse one, but I think you still have to call.

You’re calling $50 to win a pot of $230. Even against Ace Jack, you are going to win 10% of the time and chop 30% (42% against AT and so on). You add that equity in with the fact that he can just have A7 here and be clueless.

yeah my big fear was that he was overvaluing ace rag - while he was a snug player i never gave him credit as a good player

i played much higher stakes in asia about a decade ago and the biggest leak in my hand reading here at lol 1/3 usa is "i know he loves his hand but is this one of those situations where he actually shouldn't be loving his hand?"

Are you suggesting that a basic 1/3 fish is spewier than your average high stakes, Asian gambooler?

Fold pre with you reads, and if you're not even willing to go for it with trips here. Which I even kind of get, but if you're this scared of V1 trapping, then you have no business being in the hand anyway. So I would just fold to the 25. If I'm not worried about V1 I'm 3betting V2's likely blind raise.

+1, very well said.

you flopped the near nuts with your hand and had to bet/fold. this means you should just fold pre.

You're not you when you're hungry.

This could've affected his play.

seriously, when you're hungry you are more impulsive. it's Science.

i think the flop bet is way too big and potentially u should bet 0, folding to a minraise w Ax is large spew

How is the V1 in the CO acting before V2 in the HJ?

Think flatting the raise while on the BTN with A8o is usually fine, but against a maniac's raise, I'd play it as 3B or fold.

Don't know why we'd bet 2/3 pot multi way with our hand. Seems like a way ahead / way behind spot. Betting $15-$25 would probably be better, especially seeing how shallow we're starting out. Alternatively, if we're just going with our hand, then we could over-bet, and hope to just get stacks in.

I hate folding to min-clicks, but with the read that V1 is tight, and he's only got $120 left, it seems reasonable to make a super nitty fold here.

Then again, I wonder how many better Ax combos he has, and how often we either end up chopping, or he shows up with Qx. Like, if the board runs out JT, we chop with A2 to A9, and only lose to boats and straights.

With three of the aces accounted for, maybe this hand is too strong to fold. I might call, and see what he does on the turn. If he jams, then we can fold.

Our hand is under-repped, but so is V's, if he's as strong as he looks, considering he didn't raise pre. Hard for him to have the case ace and a better kicker, the way this was played, assuming he's 3B'ing AK and AQ pre, and isn't min-clicking with A9. Doubtful he'd flat pre with QQ and go multi-way and OOP. So we're really only losing to AJ, AT, and some weird slow plays.

The positions are reversed?

I would 3b pre and just go with it on every flop if the big dude folds pre.

he did indeed get it once the guy with the snickers finally understood he was serious and not joking

Science with a capital S.

Hmmmm, something doesn't add up here.

The problem is that at this stack depth, the min click might as well be a jam. If we assume the money goes in on every turn, it is a tough spot against a guy that mainly limp folds pre and limped in knowing a raise was coming. If we call flop and villain jams turn, we pretty much have to call turn.

We would need around 33% give or take depending on rake to call off if we know a turn jam is coming. If you give v AJo, ATo, A8s+, 50% of the time A7s-A4s, and AQo 1/3 of the time, we are basically at about what we need. So it's really close. I slightly lean towards fold because I think it is a bit more likely than not that the villain as described isn't value owning himself with weaker Ax. But once in a blue moon this could be a guy that is raising KQ to, "see where he's at," even if that is maybe a 5% chance. So it is really close. I don't think call or fold is going to be a huge mistake.

When it checks to us on the flop I think you bet way too big. You want to target Qx, gutshots, maybe pocket pairs. There are no high equity draws and Qx is pretty dead. 1/4 pot is a good size. Checking also isn't insane planning to got two streets for a bit larger size if it checks to you on turn. Even going 1/4 pot on the flop can allow us to get stacks in by river with a little over half pot on the turn, but by the river, our kicker won't play most of the time, and when it does, it's not clear that we will beat more than half the hands that call a river jam.

Preflop is really marginal because of the special villain. I don't hate a call, but it is dicey because the limper can have hands like AJo, ATo, A9o. But he can also have hands that A high beats.

I would fold pre, but I don't think I'm folding too easily to the minraise. Does AQ/AJ/AK do this on a rainbow board? Maybe a baby suited ace would make sense to "see where he's at" or maybe he thought V2 would come along and pay off his A2s.