How to exploit calling stations pre-flop?

"I put you on AK" is the most commonly spoken phrase by far when i stack someone regardless of opening size

i don't think this is a better strategy compared to going heads up in position with low sprs

yours requires a whole lot more favorable variance as well as someone getting a penultimate hand as they are far less likely to go to the wall multiway if there's not a huge pot preflop

but the real beauty is it's also not mutually exclusive - you can do both

you can raise massive with your hands you want to play hu with low spr and raise like normal with JTs, KQ, A5s, 56s, 66, which are more inclined for multiway nut peddlers etc

So your plan has the precondition that the entire table will be blind to a massive sizing tell?

Crazy fun facts that'll blow your mind: AKs hits about as many flushes and straights as A5s and AA hits exactly as many sets as 66.

I just double checked the numbers, and this is all wrong.

I'm out-thinking myself. The error is much more fundamental than that: inviting more callers means you win less pots, and when you're playing 25 hand/hr poker, that feels worse in the immediate-term even if it means winning more money.

I'm not even talking about long-term variance. If a grinder gets dealt QQ+/AK 10 times in a session, they'd feel better about winning 50bbs from winning the pot 8/10 times than winning 100bbs from winning the pot 5/10 times. In the absence of a database or third party accountability, the feeling is kind of all that matters.

The problem also is that even the fish will probably figure out that tell, because it is such a standard variation in sizing.

at 1/3 facing a bunch of goofballs, 100%

obviously not doing it if i'm at a tough table, but why would i be playing a tough table?

You're right, I am entirely missing how AA--a hand that actually smashes the nuts, and has no less than 46% equity against 5 opponents that it will almost wholly realize on most boards--is a low SPR hand, but 66--a hand that is praying for bottom set and is already just racing against any number of opponents before considering how it will run away from the pot crying when facing any action except for when it hits a set on the first 3 out of 5 cards--is a high SPR hand that loves to go multiway.

Memes and truisms won't help me here. You'll have to hold my hand and really walk me through it.

what specifically do you not understand about why AA plays better heads up than 66?

ok i'm listening

unsure why you're now talking about decent players, where are these fish i'm underestimating you speak of?

There could be 1 or 2 decent players at your table who could really exploit your playing face up.

It is totally stereotypical and a lot of fish / amateurs play that way with big raises with big hands. Everyone is going to sort of know you have like JJ+/AK, even if they are bad enough to call anyway. You give them information and they can play better.

If you are going to have 2 sizings, it might be good to mix it up and sometimes raise big with suited connectors, which play well 2 or 3-way and you can sometimes represent big starting hands with them.

I wouldn't assume everyone is a fish and wouldn't assume the fish are all complete morons.

I have experience playing online before it got so weird and playing in tournaments. Most people in those always make the same sizing, except for limpers, stage of tournament, etc. It is really old school, like pre poker boom players to raise bigger with big hands in tournaments.

So I have learned to play without varying this way, and am not comfortable going to that style.

Maybe it is a good exploit at low stakes. I certainly wouldn't try it in a 2/5 game.

I agree if you raise more and get the same size pot with fewer players, your expectation is higher with big hands. That is assuming none of your opponents are using the information as to your likely holding.

Yeah, but most flops are Q high through A high. Lets say people cold call 65s facing a 5x open to 10, but also vs a 7.5x open to 15. And they are also calling off garbage like KJo no matter the size. The larger sizing is probably better pre. They are making huge losing calls pre. But when they start raising our bets on boards where we don't have sets, two pair, straights, we just want to exploitatively overfold.

In games where we get called wide by recs and under 3b, we are clearly going to be the ones that come out ahead by raising very large pre. We are printing against the people calling wide. We should bring down our raise size when we get 3bet a lot (the true exploit to our strategy) and when fewer people are calling us with garbage.

deuce, please find where i said you should use linear sizes against good players, furthermore i very specifically said if i saw anyone trying to exploit this i would cease it

were arguing two different things

but even so, in your example of 2x good players at the table, most of the time their adjustment is overfolding hands they were probably folding anyway to a normal open

i've been watching people do it without a response

i notice i myself do not bother to exploit them

i noticed nobody ever tries to use it against me, and in the lone event where i noticed it, it's not the hardest thing to counter

you may be familiar with the princess bride problem

nobody wants this, and if they do, you just put a pause on it for a while

You don't know that people aren't using it. Even if you consider them fish, they have to be somewhat aware of the obvious tell. Since it is very common at this stakes for people to have this tell, it is very easy to read.

It's not easy to counter if a decent player uses it against you. If you are face up, a decent player can use it against you in a variety of ways. Not only is your raise big range defined, but your raise small range is capped. Suppose a player knew your exact cards. Then he could rip you apart.

None of it. I’ve never played poker before. Explain it all to me.

yeah idk. i question if like half of the forum actually plays poker or just comes here and posts essays instead

I went back and skimmed your first post in this thread and have decided to rescind my offer for you to type up any sort of long and detailed response to me. I will instead just go read the screenplay for Rounders.

Lol AKs can do everything A3s can do and a lot more. Same with AA versus 66.

You assume your opponents are fish. However, someone who completely does not know what he is doing in a 1/2 or 1/3 game will usually lose his buyin fast.

I wouldn't assume your opponents have no idea what you have when you are face up with your sizings. Deception is really important in poker, not playing face up and assuming they are so bad it won't matter.

db, as we noted earlier, we do this only when we know the opponents are fish

jfc man, work on reading comprehension, for the last time, we are discussing different things

i don't care if you agree or disagree with me, i honestly don't care, but i do take umbrage with the fact that you're fundamentally misrepresenting what i very specifically wrote and already clarified

I whole heartedly agree with this play style at a call station table. You don't need much of a raise from anywhere to be able to 3! and with the way you have explained this table most likely someone will raise and then you can bet 40$ or more. I do not like open over your standard 25$ either because as doc explains your playing your hand much more face up. I think we have to induce the limp and hope for a raise here UTG makes for lots of possibilities! Even multiway this hand has great showdown value.