PLO5 - 135BB effective, Blind vs blind 4 bet pot

PLO5 - 135BB effective, Blind vs blind 4 bet pot

I have villain marked as a good player. They make some moves, but overall, they are a winning player.
In this game, people don't really ever fold to 4 bets (so not sure if 4 betting here is a mistake this deep with these Aces)

Hero (sb) 200BB
Villain (BB) 135BB

Preflop: Hero has A A J 5 2 in sb
3 folds, Hero raises to 3BB, Villain raises to 9BB, hero raises to 27BB, Villain calls

Flop: Q 8 8
Hero bets 10BB, Villain calls

Turn: 6
Hero checks, villain bets 14BB, hero calls

River: J
Hero checks, villain shoves

Not sure what to do here. Comments on all streets welcome.

My thinking is that I unblock diamonds and villain could easily have AKK with diamonds or some Adxd . But we have no straight blockers. Would villain shove the river with a straight for value? Feel like I am being bullied in these spots.

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05 January 2025 at 08:54 PM
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9 Replies



I'd assume river is a standard fold as played; I don't have strong feelings about flop/turn but probably mostly OK. The sizings are just so small relative to pot, that it's hard for it be a big error, even if alternative lines might be better.

Check flop is probably better than small bet. And there is also a case for a larger flop bet so Hero can put the rest of his chips in on the turn. But most of the flop lines are going to be mostly math and memorization based. Solver probably finds some x/raises on flop and turn because of poor river playability.

4! pre seems fine.


I'm fine with pre. I don't bet the flop if I'm not going to continue on basically a blank turn. I probably fold river in game unless I have a read on the player or my gut is screaming at me to call. A good player can easily take control of this hand and be bluffing, but it's impossible to know from our computers.


I like flop cbet but would size up a bit. I know in 4b pots we do use some smaller cbet sizings but in this particular spot 1/3 works nicely.

Basically range cbet all paired boards that don't contain a paired broadway card (TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA). We do start to have some healthy checks on these board pairing flops which makes sense given 3bettor's range almost always contains an A or strong rundowns that interact well enough.

Turn pot. Even at slightly higher than 100bb eff we can apply a ton of pressure to villain's draws as well as often take a very healthy equity share on this street. By checking we're basically allowing villain to play their range very easily imo. Also going to be an under attacked turn given population plays AA this way far too often imo.



Slightly shallower sim but shouldn't affect change decisions much. High lighted is basically an overview of our betting strategy postflop across similar boards. Only checking 17% roughly of paired flops in 5c (basically range cbetting
in 4c).


Think we have 2 to 1 SPR - think I'd just pot the flop. I mean really when you 4b it's probably obvious you have Aces - he can just play accordingly. A lot of our value comes from getting money in preflop - a 10 bb bet or a check is going to lead to a guessing game where a knowledgeable player can play knowing you prob have AA.


by TiltyFish88 k

I like flop cbet but would size up a bit. I know in 4b pots we do use some smaller cbet sizings but in this particular spot 1/3 works nicely.

Basically range cbet all paired boards that don't contain a paired broadway card (TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA). We do start to have some healthy checks on these board pairing flops which makes sense given 3bettor's range almost always contains an A or strong rundowns that interact well enough.

Turn pot. Even at slightly higher than 100bb eff we can apply a ton of press

Nice post,thank you, though I am curious about how large a difference there could be between (q8)8 and (q9)9. It feels meaningful more dynamic to me, though it might not be as relevant depending on the specific solver configuration being used (and I understand the practically of not generating new solves for situations that seem comparable).

More specifically, hero can absolutely play a more aggressive strategy at 100-110bb than 135bb, and I think the presence of an open-ended straight draw (with 3 straight flush combos) also allows for more aggression than an inside wrap. The excess/orphan chips can also become more problematic.


by monikrazy k

Nice post,thank you, though I am curious about how large a difference there could be between (q8)8 and (q9)9. It feels meaningful more dynamic to me, though it might not be as relevant depending on the specific solver configuration being used (and I understand the practically of not generating new solves for situations that seem comparable).

More specifically, hero can absolutely play a more aggressive strategy at 100-110bb than 135bb, and I think the presence of an open-ended straight draw (with

Sorry for late response. No problem and good question, I actually wondered the same. Played around w/ it and there's barely much difference. Solver really wants to leverage our overpair advantage here even on slightly more dynamic paired flops.

As for aggression factor given stack depths agree he can play a bit more aggressively but honestly not a huge difference between those stack depths and strategy imo. Much deeper for sure.


by TiltyFish88 k

Sorry for late response. No problem and good question, I actually wondered the same. Played around w/ it and there's barely much difference. Solver really wants to leverage our overpair advantage here even on slightly more dynamic paired flops.

As for aggression factor given stack depths agree he can play a bit more aggressively but honestly not a huge difference between those stack depths and strategy imo. Much deeper for sure.

Thanks for sharing.


by TiltyFish88 k

I like flop cbet but would size up a bit. I know in 4b pots we do use some smaller cbet sizings but in this particular spot 1/3 works nicely.

Basically range cbet all paired boards that don't contain a paired broadway card (TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA). We do start to have some healthy checks on these board pairing flops which makes sense given 3bettor's range almost always contains an A or strong rundowns that interact well enough.

Turn pot. Even at slightly higher than 100bb eff we can apply a ton of press

very good analysis +1
what solver are you using for this? thx


by Pokerbros_Player k

very good analysis +1
what solver are you using for this? thx

This is just Vision and no sweat.

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