Israel/Palestine thread

no I understand your point. theres just too much to unpack about how bonkers that story is.

https://www.maariv.co.il/news/israel/article-1108570

maariv

כתבת "הארץ": "חיילי צה"ל לא אונסים ערביות בגלל גזענות"

this is the exact same claim, only from this year. still think the story is too bonkers?

I bet I can find many more.

You are like the class loser, that just doesn't want to give up

https://rotter.net/forum/scoops1/854223....

another source.

I bet if I really take my time, I can find the conference and maybe even the speakers name.

no I dont doubt that its a myth that Israeli's tell themselves.

so even presented facts you dig your leg in the sand? what will make Vic go back on a wrong claim?

like imagine trying to turn this into a victimhood thing

Oh right, I forgot that there hasn’t been a single rape of a Palestinian by IDF since the days of the Irgun & Haganah..

Use your brain.

Sexual violence happens in every armed conflict both within forces and against enemies/captives.

Judging by IDF track record on notable crimes such as killing of children, aid workers and journalists (all of which are record highs by the way, congratulations IDF) and the sheer total number of detainees over the last 7 decades, I am willing to go out on a limb and say there’s been some Palestinians who have been raped.

Maybe you’ve been graced by God to have never served alongside an Israeli who was a complainant nor perpetrator, or came in contact with a Palestinian who was victim of such a crime. That doesn’t mean there is a world in which it doesn’t happen. It doesn’t have to happen on a mass scale, but it still happens.

If there were 1500 complaints within IDF, how many didn’t complain? How many couldn't?

Just imagine going threw life never being able to admit you were wrong.

I assume Lancet published a ton of stuff during COVID that Victor disagreed with. Same with Israeli media as it relates to the war (but then he'll cite Israeli media when he needs).

Welcome to the maze of just picking what fits and disregarding everything else when your mind is made up, and critical thinking isn't high on the priority list.

did not Israel also back out a day before Obama came in ?

*shrug* I can do the googling for you but I can't do the reading for you, not sure what you want from me here.

critical thinking and basic arithmetic is why its quite obv that the death toll is much higher than reported

you brought a claim and shared a wrong source. no need to double down, just share a different source. trolly did the same. i dont get it. you both claim thousands of complaints and evidence, yet produce 0.

FYI- out of the 1,500 complaints you shared of soldiers (mostly women) in the IDF, most are picture sharing and cat calling and such. not that I support it, but it is 18-21 year old kids and there is a lot of sexual tension. but alleged rapes were only 26 cases, which is in accordance of regular crime rate (sadly), so lets keep things in proportion .

also, no soldier I served with, know of, talked to, worked or hanged out with, ever saw even something remotely close to a sex crime against Palestinians.

your deduction is false from start to finish

let me help you understand something about the IDF.

before we are recruited, and starting at 16 years old, we go threw exams to check where is best for us to serve.

in order to be a combat soldier, you have to pass physical, psychological and mental exams, including interviews with psychologist, an "IQ" test and more.

If you dont pass in a certain grade you cant serve as a combat soldier. after recruit, we are filtered based on physical and mental tests.

that is why on average the Israeli combat soldier is well adjusted, compared maybe to other armies.

but they passed me, so I guess you have a claim

And my claim was that Israel segregates, rapes and kills Palestinians.

I have to admit it’s very strange that you:

-can’t use common sense to deduce that if hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been interrogated, detained and imprisoned over a period of decades there are SOME that have inevitably been raped
-deny this vehemently, as if it is impossible

Thanks for acknowledging the other two though.

If 98% of complaints against fellow IDF lead to no indictment, what do we think the percentage is for Palestinians? Do the military courts they are detained in even give them the right to file a complaint?

I just want facts man, dont really care about your deduction abilities.

Learned a new word (vehemently) so thank you

Let me give you real life facts - more than 95% of sexual complaints, in the "civil" world, do not get to indictments, as they are the hardest crimes to prove. sad but true.

I don't think that's unusual. Muhammad Ali, though not stupid, failed the US Army's IQ test for the draft to Vietnam, and bashfully admitted, 'I didn't pay too much attention in school and I don't read or write too well.' They later lowered the pass mark and he passed the test -- physically of course he was top-notch -- so he got drafted and had to refuse to serve, and then got in trouble.

As discussed months ago, there is an implicit "not-said".

For normal people, in normal parlance, rape is men violating women for sexual pleasure.

You instead are discussing the possibility of men prisoners being raped as a form of torture/interrogation technique.

The latter has very possibly happened but it's not what people "hear" when we discuss IDF having purportedly raped Palestinians.

Because Hamas did rape Israeli women through violent non consensual intercourse, and as much as you can be disgusted by torture of terrorists, for normal people torturing terrorists for information in time sensitive situations is exceptionally less immoral (if not outright moral) than men raping innocent women through non consensual sexual intercourse.

Maybe this clarifies the topic a bit

There are complaints about being tortured while in custody basically, "rape", while maybe being technically correct in legal English (it depends on the country) is used to give the impression of IDF soldiers violating Palestinian women, something there is absolutely no trace of.

They are trying to claim that some prisoners got something inserted in their anus among other things while being interrogated ok? And that might have happened, probably happened, that and/or some variations of that , that included sexual humiliation/assault.

So they use that to "make even" with their terrorists keeping Israeli women as sexual slaves (which of course for normal people is infinitely worse)

I remember reading about this when it happened. It appears what actually happened is a prisoner injured himself trying to smuggle contraband in his anus. And somehow the propaganda outrage machine then turned this into him being sexually abused, which then turned into an epidemic of such abuse.

But it is all baseless. Just straight bad faith.

Every accusation is an admission they say. And this would definitely be a perfect representation of This.

I think the fairly balanced report that confirmed mass organized rape by Hamas on 10 7 and subsequent days (on hostages), claimed there was enough proof to support the thesis that sexual humiliation was used by the IDF in various cases in the following months on prisoner suspects to interrogate or just to "weaken their spirits" and so on.

we linked that report months ago ITT (can't find it now). so I wouldn't call it all baseless.

there is nothing strange to believe prisoner "abuse" (as defined by the utterly ridiculous "international rules") might have happened.

but as explained above the use of the word "rape" is on purpose to muddle the water.

the good faith moderate center left person reading that "the IDF probably raped many Palestinians" is going to think soldiers took 16y old Palestinian girls to have "fun".

she isn't going to think we are talking at plausible occurrence of men prisoner abuse like in Abu Ghabi (or even less, just stripping them naked and the like).