The "LOLCANADA" thread...again
So what's new?
I've noticed the Liberals are now ahead in all major polls and Trudeau hasn't even started to campaign yet...i'd be shocked if they lost the election now.
Just shows just how incompetent Conservatives are.
I think at this point, it's pretty clear that Lozen doesn't give a **** what the meaning of words is, he'll use them as he pleases. I've lost track of how many times I've called him out for saying things are lies that clearly aren't, the last of which was this one which he didn't reply to - a common tactic of his when he runs out of answers when he's called out on his bullshit:
No dude, that would be according to the ****ing dictionary.
lie
3 of 4
verb (2)
ˈlī
lied; lying ˈlī-iŋ
intransitive verb
1
: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
She was lying when she said she didn't break the vase.
He lied about his past experience.
I've highlighted the relevant part of you.
This stuff isn't hard, and I've been down this road with you before. I know the word "lie" is misused a lot these da
Carbon tax is a great thing that was communicated very poorly.
Liberals are seeing good gains in the polls since Trudeau resigned, if the Liberals can somehow pull off an election win this year does that signal the end of this version of the CPC? I think a split could be likely as a war would emerge between the Harper group and non Harper side
I think at this point, it's pretty clear that Lozen doesn't give a **** what the meaning of words is, he'll use them as he pleases. I've lost track of how many times I've called him out for saying things are lies that clearly aren't, the last of which was this one which he didn't reply to - a common tactic of his when he runs out of answers when he's called out on his bullshit:
Please tell me how they calculate how 80% of folks get more back than they pay ?
I’ll tell you they estimate how much people drive and how much their heating and electrical costs are . Should be easy to get this formula . Is this estimate given to the PBO officer or does he make the estimate based on stats . I have tried to source that info which should be easy to find and have not been able to
Sorry if I don’t trust a government that has no issue in lying repeatedly to us .
It’s not a lie that when you factor everything in the carbon tax costs more than you get back
Is it a lie they liberals cut the carbon tax for Atlantic CDNs to gain votes
Is it a lie that Pierre’s climate plan will have the same effect on climate change as Justin’s plan ?
And to answer Ukes question no I do not believe 80% of CDNs get more back than they pay
“Once again the PBO confirms the carbon tax costs average families hundreds of dollars more than they get back in rebates,” said Franco Terrazzano, CTF Federal Director. “This PBO report proves that politicians' favourite talking point is incorrect and it proves the carbon tax is making life harder for Canadians.”
Let’s be honest and call it what it is a wealth distribution tax
Carbon tax is a great thing that was communicated very poorly.
Liberals are seeing good gains in the polls since Trudeau resigned, if the Liberals can somehow pull off an election win this year does that signal the end of this version of the CPC? I think a split could be likely as a war would emerge between the Harper group and non Harper side
Communicated poorly weather you agree with it or not . If 80% of folks get more back than they pay why are Freeland and Carney dropping it because CDNs don’t believe it
If the election is close the CPC failed . Though I do believe Pierre will only have one term as Trudeau has screwed it up so bad no one can fix what he has done in one term
Please tell me how they calculate how 80% of folks get more back than they pay ?
I’ll tell you they estimate how much people drive and how much their heating and electrical costs are . Should be easy to get this formula . Is this estimate given to the PBO officer or does he make the estimate based on stats . I have tried to source that info which should be easy to find and have not been able to
Sorry if I don’t trust a government that has no issue in lying repeatedly to us .
It’s not a lie that
Lol, well I will take the non-partisan economists at the PBO over your gut feels. Like that is the entire point of having the PBO so they can do detailed analysis that informs public policy. Nobody ITT is remotely qualified to do the actual analysis (and if someone was, I’d be BY FAR the closest based on my academic discipline), but thankfully we have a great source to be able to do this work for us. Of course they can make mistakes - like the early mistake that doubled the claimed economic costs. But you can’t say they are “lies” based on nothing but feels. You have to say find some economic literature outside the PBO that does the analysis and gets a different conclusion - at minimum. But I’m aware of no such papers. As far as I can tell, everyone agrees with the 8/10th part.
But you.
Who calls them lies.
Carbon tax is a great thing that was communicated very poorly.
Liberals are seeing good gains in the polls since Trudeau resigned, if the Liberals can somehow pull off an election win this year does that signal the end of this version of the CPC? I think a split could be likely as a war would emerge between the Harper group and non Harper side
I honestly don’t know what else they could have done. Like your right, polls show people remain very uninformed about basics of how the policy work, not realizing for instance the money coming into their account is a rebate. But if you look at how they communicate it, they scream it as often as they can. Instead, I think the blame falls on the guy that has spent the last two years flooding the zone with disinformation about how the tax is destroying everything.
Like we saw that paper earlier that showed that the carbon tax was responsible for 1/38th of the food price inflation over last five years. Maybe they should have shouted about that more. But with inflation so high, it’s SO easy for Pierre to pin it on the carbon tax even if that isn’t remotely true.
Communicated poorly weather you agree with it or not . If 80% of folks get more back than they pay why are Freeland and Carney dropping it because CDNs don’t believe it
If the election is close the CPC failed . Though I do believe Pierre will only have one term as Trudeau has screwed it up so bad no one can fix what he has done in one term
Lol. Freeland and carney are moving away because it is rightly or wrongly political kryptonite these days. That doesn’t imply anything about your conspiracy theory that the PBO is lying. They both clearly think the truth - that the policy is a good one - but politically unviable due to poiilievres lies.
I honestly don’t know what else they could have done. Like your right, polls show people remain very uninformed about basics of how the policy work, not realizing for instance the money coming into their account is a rebate. But if you look at how they communicate it, they scream it as often as they can. Instead, I think the blame falls on the guy that has spent the last two years flooding the zone with disinformation about how the tax is destroying everything.
Like we saw that paper earlier tha
I have clearly told you what they could have done differently. You as a math professor should understand . Show us your work how do you come about your calculations .
If they had come out and said we base our 80% on the average family of four spends $2000 a year to heat their home and a $1000 on Electricity and drives an average of 15,000 kms and has one vehicle . So they would spend $1123 on the carbon tax but receive $1400 back than folks might believe a government that lied to them repeatedly
I have clearly told you what they could have done differently. You as a math professor should understand . Show us your work how do you come about your calculations .
If they had come out and said we base our 80% on the average family of four spends $2000 a year to heat their home and a $1000 on Electricity and drives an average of 15,000 kms and has one vehicle . So they would spend $1123 on the carbon tax but receive $1400 back than folks might believe a government that lied to them repeatedly
lmao, buddy thinks he is an economist. I didn’t do the calculations, I didn’t do the work, because a math professor doesn’t equal an economist. That’s why we have the non-partisan expert economists at the PBO to do the work for us to inform policy. None of your conservative buddies disbelieve the report - heck they quote from it! So to have this conspiracy theory that it is wrong based on nothing but your feel feels is hilarious.
And not just wrong, you call it a LIE. Well show us one economist who has written a paper detailing why it is a lie.
I’ll wait.
lmao, buddy thinks he is an economist. I didn’t do the calculations, I didn’t do the work, because a math professor doesn’t equal an economist. That’s why we have the non-partisan expert economists at the PBO to do the work for us to inform policy. None of your conservative buddies disbelieve the report - heck they quote from it! So to have this conspiracy theory that it is wrong based on nothing but your feel feels is hilarious.
And not just wrong, you call it a LIE. Well show us one economist
show me one economist that shows us how they calculate. Chances they are all partisan liberal hacks like you
“Once again the PBO confirms the carbon tax costs average families hundreds of dollars more than they get back in rebates,” said Franco Terrazzano, CTF Federal Director. “This PBO report proves that politicians' favourite talking point is incorrect and it proves the carbon tax is making life harder for Canadians.”
show me one economist that shows us how they calculate. Chances they are all partisan liberal hacks like you
So you believe one student from one of our great universities (that has huge tendencies from libertarian ideology ) but you don’t believe hundreds of actual
Teachers from those same universities ?
So better to believe a student (completed a master) that get paid for thinking the way he is instead of believing the experts (teachers with phd) that are are actually paid to teach what it’s actually is and gain nothing from supporting or denying the carbon tax ?
Fwiw those teachers do at time contradict the government ….
Each time you quoted that pbc stuff it was always a misinterpretation of what it actually said by you .
So again I wouldn’t surprise it still the case .
Fwiw it’s like the equalization program , many (from the right ) makes dubious comments about how it works because they don’t like to pay it , same thing with the carbon taxes .
I’m Not surprise u can sometimes find some quotes that contradict the way it really works ….
Ps : and what a surprise ?
The source of lozen says the exact same thing about the equalization program ….
It’s a taxe , it’s is job to complain about all of them .
So nothing much you can learn from this guy …u know in advance what the answer will always be …like a climate changes denier !
Pps: we showed once 300 Experts with phd approving the carbon tax and u trust a masters student degree making money as a libertarian writter on an anti tax site …shrug
Come to think of it lozen , do you believe me, uke and many others wish to pay the carbon tax if we didn’t had too ?
Come to think of it lozen , do you believe me, uke and many others wish to pay the carbon tax if we didn’t had too ?
Uke believes its his moral responsibility would be my guess
The bottom line is none of you can say that this is a lie. Pierre's climate plan if we do nothing will have the overall same effect on climate change as Justin Trudeau's carbon tax
Let me ask you this why will no one tell me how they calculate that you get more back than you pay? Even In Alberta I paid more . It was not much but here in BC if it remained I would be paying $3000 to $4000 a year extra .
show me one economist that shows us how they calculate. Chances they are all partisan liberal hacks like you
“Once again the PBO confirms the carbon tax costs average families hundreds of dollars more than they get back in rebates,” said Franco Terrazzano, CTF Federal Director. “This PBO report proves that politicians’ favourite talking point is incorrect and it proves the carbon tax is making life harder for Canadians.”
Lol. That is somebody CITING the PBO report. They are not saying there is something wrong with it. They don't have a conspiracy theory that the fiscal calculation is incorrect. That person is citing the section of the PBO report on economic as opposed to fiscal portions, which is great, you can do that. You just can't pretend the calculations are incorrect based on your feels. So you are back to finding zero economists who don't believe the PBO report to be broadly accurate.
Next?
I'll keep waiting.
Let me ask you this why will no one tell me how they calculate that you get more back than you pay? Even In Alberta I paid more . It was not much but here in BC if it remained I would be paying $3000 to $4000 a year extra .
Maybe this is the thing that is confusing you. The report doesn't make a claim about any particular individual person. It doesn't calculate out your specific personal story in Alberta, nor is it about your almost certainly bad back-of-the-envelope family of 4 calculation. It's about EVERYONE. That the PBO finds - and zero economists you've found don't believe it - that 8/10 Canadians get more back than they pay at least on the fiscal side of things.
It's just a conspiracy theory to not believe them. If you can't believe PBO reports you can't really have an informed opinion on politics at all (this isn't the same as that they are infalliable - they aren't - it's just you can't choose to disbelieve them based on nothing but your feels).
Karen Gould is in seems like she is throwing away $350,000
Isn’t this a two way race
Please tell me how they calculate how 80% of folks get more back than they pay ?
I’ll tell you they estimate how much people drive and how much their heating and electrical costs are . Should be easy to get this formula . Is this estimate given to the PBO officer or does he make the estimate based on stats . I have tried to source that info which should be easy to find and have not been able to
Why? That has nothing to do with my post you're replying to.
Sorry if I don’t trust a government that has no issue in lying repeatedly to us .
It’s not a lie that when you factor everything in the carbon tax costs more than you get back
Is it a lie they liberals cut the carbon tax for Atlantic CDNs to gain votes
Is it a lie that Pierre’s climate plan will have the same effect on climate change as Justin’s plan ?
You seem a little confused. I'm not accusing you of lying, so I don't know why you're asking me if all these things you believe are lies. You're the guy who uses the word to basically mean that anything you disagree with is a lie, and I'm the guy calling you out for it. That's it.
Uke believes its his moral responsibility would be my guess
The bottom line is none of you can say that this is a lie. Pierre's climate plan if we do nothing will have the overall same effect on climate change as Justin Trudeau's carbon tax
Let me ask you this why will no one tell me how they calculate that you get more back than you pay? Even In Alberta I paid more . It was not much but here in BC if it remained I would be paying $3000 to $4000 a year extra .
1. you are missing the point, stop deflecting...
Do you believe if we didnt need to pay it, we would ?
we dont like tax as much as u do, the thing is we believe in science and experts while you dont.
It has nothing to do with moral....
2. again been proven wrong many times by experts....the worst option is to do nothing.
Even if we did something that would be far from perfect (ie: carbon tax in your case despite the contrary scientifically) would still be far better then doing nothing .
again doing nothing is by far the worst option.....
3. you dont seem to know (surprisingly..) how the tax carbon work.
If for example you make middle income but you use far more oil and other product that emits , you will end up in the negative.
its normal, its not a 100% exemption but it is if u are a reasonable user by a measure they choose.
its like an income tax, everyone pays the same rate, but some pay more taxes because they won more money at higher tax level.
the point of the tax carbon is to make you change your over consumption habit and they give u a break till 2030 do to so.
it was not a bad tax at all for the purpose it was aiming for.
And again the trudeau tax carbon isnt made for BC and Quebec, they have their own product about it...
B.C., Quebec and the Northwest Territories have their own carbon-pricing mechanisms that meet federal standards — so they aren't part of the federal tax or rebates.
So polievre coulnt stop it, it is provincial...
1. you are missing the point, stop deflecting...
Do you believe if we didnt need to pay it, we would ?
we dont like tax as much as u do, the thing is we believe in science and experts while you dont.
It has nothing to do with moral....
2. again been proven wrong many times by experts....the worst option is to do nothing.
Even if we did something that would be far from perfect (ie: carbon tax in your case despite the contrary scientifically) would still be far better then doing nothing .
again doing no
Like I have said many times it punishes conservatives more than liberals . Folks that live in Rural areas do not have public transit options
If it’s so great why are the two prominent liberal candidates scrapping it ?
Lol. That is somebody CITING the PBO report. They are not saying there is something wrong with it. They don't have a conspiracy theory that the fiscal calculation is incorrect. That person is citing the section of the PBO report on economic as opposed to fiscal portions, which is great, you can do that. You just can't pretend the calculations are incorrect based on your feels. So you are back to finding zero economists who don't believe the PBO report to be broadly accurate.
Next?
I'll keep wait
not only that.
No one on earth or super computer can predict the economy 3 month in advance, so imagine till 2030...
that author u use is a hack lozen, its bs....
The PBO can make economic projection , like the bank of canada do for inflation....
how that turned out huh ?
Economic projection are by far the worst data u can use to predict the future, but not the fiscal one ....and fiscally they are right !
it neutral cost...
Like I have said many times it punishes conservatives more than liberals . Folks that live in Rural areas do not have public transit options
If it’s so great why are the two prominent liberal candidates scrapping it ?
tell me a secret, do quebec has a bigger population then alberta for example ? about ontario ?
u believe quebec and ontaro do not have rural population ?
gfto.....
and it isnt blue that much probably because they actually believe in science themselves while the reform party doesnt...
western conservative are the most selfish people i ever met....thinking if they dont win 100% of the time they get cheated .
Sometimes you win sometime u lose but this thing about climate shouldnt have nothing to do with politics at all !!!
Tough launch for Christia Freeland as constantly interrupted by Hamas supporters
I’m not sure how she has any credibility not supporting a carbon tax anymore after her years praising it. Voters will see through it
Same goes for Carbon Tax Carney
Let’s hope for no Tariffs today
I have no clue how Justin releases a communica when you know your not united weather you agree with Smith or not .
I get a kick out of folks that say we should cut off oil ? WTF that’s impossible it’s not like you can store 640,000 barrels of oil daily
I don’t see why you think freeland and carney would have a sticky sticker on them about the tax carbon .
Freeland quit because she diverge immensely with Trudeau and seem carney as well by refusing the finance minister .
Who knows exactly what carney propose and what Trudeau kept , if anything .
I’m not sure how she has any credibility not supporting a carbon tax anymore after her years praising it. Voters will see through it
Same goes for Carbon Tax Carney
I'm not sure what confuses you. She was pretty clear that she likes the proposal BUT that she doesn't want to fight Canadians on it given the shifting of the tides. That's reasonable! It's sad, but in some ways it is a healthy thing in a democracy. So I don't know what you mean by "voters will see through it"...that implies something secretive and nefarious when everything is already out in the open. We will get some climate change plans from her - unlike Poilievre - but it won't take the form of a consumer carbon tax. So if you support fighting climate change you should still vote liberal and if you don't think we should even try to do anything then you should vote Poilievre.
I have no clue how Justin releases a communica when you know your not united weather you agree with Smith or not .
I think it was quite important that we release this to say that EVERY other premier - including conservative ones like Ford - are firmly aboard the #teamCanada approach and that while there is one fringe person who is being invited to Mar-a-lago by the mr wonderful grifter trying to pretend to take the 51st state thing seriously, that one person can be ignored as not representing the canadian approach.
I get a kick out of folks that say we should cut off oil ? WTF that’s impossible it’s not like you can store 640,000 barrels of oil daily
Hey if only someone had bought and successfully built Alberta a pipeline to get albertan oil to other markets than the US. Oh wait, THANKYOUTRUDEAU
Current leaks are that the 25% tarrifs are NOT coming out today, and the matter will be punted to some further review. If that is true it is a MASSIVE win for Trudeau and for Canada. For a little bit at the beginning people like shifty were jumping on Trump's rhetoric pretending we needed to secure our 8000km border. Neither of those people ever said wtf that meant, but Trudeau actually did a whole series of actions in a short time to make at least superficial progress and now Trump barely even mentions this pretense any longer. It was always about trade deficits that's what he cares about. But then Trudeau has been developing a solid list of ways to fight back - as I said he should - of possible ways to fight this tariff and while we will never know what parts worked and what parts didn't, the very worst is avoided at least on Day 1. I hope. I'm sure something will happen at some point, but hopefully not quite as bad and not quite as immediate.
