Starting to Play More PLO, best resources for preflop? Postflop?
I am a full time live holdem player, but starting to play 2-3 round of each NLHE/PLO, 5/10/20 unraked, 10/25/50 unraked, and 5/5 usually straddled to 10-15 with a $15 10% rake. Both are full ring. What are the best resources to look at? I have been looking some at PLO mastermind free that uses the GGpoker PLO50-200 rake structure for 6 max. Do you think there are some heuristics kind of adjustments I can make for live poker/unraked? I assume we get to call a little more and don't need to 3b as often, right?
I would be willing to spend some money now that I am potentially going to play a lot more PLO.
Also, what postflop solver stuff is out there and how helpful is it for soft live PLO games? I know PLO Mastermind has some stuff available, but I am not sure if thst is going to be super necessary/helpful. I do think studying GTO in holdem has helped me a lot in that I have a decent understanding of equilibrium strategies in a lot of spots, but a decent understanding of how my opponents are deviating and how to exploit them. Is that type of studying good for live PLO? Are there other more efficient approaches?
Know having good preflop ranges and basic handreading skills go a long way, but I am looking for other things I can get a larger edge in these games.
11 Replies
You really should play a lot of low stakes online PLO in order to learn the nuts and bolts of equities and how to punish and be unpunishable before you play those sorts of stakes. I don't care if you're a highly skilled NL live crusher and up against droolers, you'll be pissing away a tonne of EV in paying for your education that you can get very cheap just by playing $50 or whatever.
Likely you'll be up against worse opponents in your live game than that $50, so it's like learning football by playing with a small ball on a beach against adults. When it comes to playing your own age, with boots and on grass, you'll crush like a Brazilian
Ok, so if I am learning PLO to play plo 50 online, how would I go about learning the theoretical foundations?
Ok, so if I am learning PLO to play plo 50 online, how would I go about learning the theoretical foundations?
If you haven't read it, user Zefa has a great thread in the PB&G subforum. I only play PLO sparingly (exclusively online microstakes) but I think it is one of the more entertaining & informative threads on this message board and worth reading in its entirety. He discusses PLO study techniques and tools a bit and IIRC he plays some live PLO in Texas.
This is his response to a NLHE player asking how to transition to PLO, starting with low stakes online and eventually moving to live.
PLO trainer was great for helping me clean up my preflop game a ton. But at 10 PLO and 25 PLO the price tag is probably a bit hefty. If you do wanna try it out for a month, I'd commit to studying a ton and taking notes down during that month for preflop scenarios. Also remember preflop ranges are gonna be vastly different based on the stakes you play due to rake as well as stack size. I generally study PLO 500-PLO 5k 100 BB ranges and I recommend newer players probably do the same just becau
Thanks, that is really helpful, I will check that thread out.
I guess playing low-stakes PLO online can teach you to play tight and more correctly, but the games I play (.25/.50) it's almost bingo. If the limp, they call a raise -- and they limp a lot. If they hit any part of the board, they call a bet. Plus, they almost never fold a flush. The good news is they rarely bluff, so it also teaches you to lay down decent hands that are so tempting to call.
Player types and bet/stack sizing awareness. Isolating in position.
Who is willing to fold a Jack high flush/draw .. Who will NEVER fold a six-high 'anything' draw.
The less inclined you are willing to fold 4th-20th nuts the bigger your bankroll needs to be. While you never fold boats in NL, it can be the right play very often in PLO.
Know that there will be various opinions of your bet sizing based on their own play and not so much your image.
Know that the x/r is a huge tool in PLO compared to NL since any thin value will affect the x/r sizing and may not allow you to call with your 'MDF' type holdings.. it also allows them to apply 'blocker' pressure more often.
IMO if you can find a game where every bet isn't 'pot' that a skilled player should be more successful over time. GL
FWIW, I also play in a .50/1 game and a 1/2 game online, and they play much more closely to live -- less limp/calling, less chasing. Those stakes I think someone could learn from.
FWIW, I also play in a .50/1 game and a 1/2 game online, and they play much more closely to live -- less limp/calling, less chasing. Those stakes I think someone could learn from.
Depending on what market (and site) you are talking about I would definitely want to discuss the less limp/calling-less chasing comment about live poker. I play in the Midwest and Vegas and the lowest stake in the room is ALWAYS limp/call and chase mode for more than half the table.
The $5 Live PLO Player 'thrives' on limp/calling and then getting stuck in marginal spots with low SPR and/or spewing 5-10% of their stack PF only to fold on the Flop when the pot is now bloated and it's too expensive to float their equity .. or they just miss (60% of the time). The 3b, and certainly 4b, ranges are WAY too small and put them into 'cross fingers' mode unless they smash the Flop.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting the comments, but Live PLO is anything but disciplined especially when under 100bb. GL
I agree it's a lot of limp/call, but not nearly as much as at .25/.50 -- and they do fold the flop way more live or at the higher online stakes.
Basically, I think the very low stakes (.25/.50 or less) PLO online is just bingo.
So PLO trainer is the PLO Mastermind product, right? I have been studying preflop a good bit. Should I bite the bullet and get it to study postflop? Are there other cost effective alternatives? I saw run it once had a similarly priced product.
So PLO trainer is the PLO Mastermind product, right? I have been studying preflop a good bit. Should I bite the bullet and get it to study postflop? Are there other cost effective alternatives? I saw run it once had a similarly priced product.
I have Mastermind. I also at one point had a Run it Once Vision subscription. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions
