AQ suited facing 4-bet OOP

I would raise to 75 pre, but you have to also take your stack size into consideration, so if this is 2/5 I would just call pre since raising leaves us with about a psb left otf.

As played I would just fold to his 4bet unless you've seen him do this in the past with hands you're ahead of (in that case I would jam).

Thank you, Playbig200, is there any reason you would raise to 75? I haven't thought of that at the time, but do I need to raise so that I have to the odds to call vs KK or QQs?

Thanks a bunch that makes sense! So $65 pre and if we face a 3bet we go all in or still fold?

My standard formula in those spots is add both bets, double them, and add one more bet for being OOP.

I would raise the same amount (in general) no matter what I have.

When someone 4bets, unless you know them to have done this as bluffs in the past (which is extremely rare), most people will show up with KK+.

And fwiw, because our hand is suited it gives us the option to flat pre since it plays better multiway then if was unsuited, where I would usually either raise or fold.

I think I’d be okay with you jamming all in preflop. Just be sure that you do the same thing when you have KK/QQ too.

I’ll summarize it. Let’s say he’s got PFR of 15%, or approx 199 combos. He calls all in with 99+/AQs+/AKo. 56 combos. So he calls about 28% of the time, not factoring in card removal. But we do have positive removal, meaning that we may expect him to call less often, maybe 25%.

So say there’s $45 in the middle, and we’re risking $215 to win it, and we have 1/3rd equity when he calls. 75% of the time, we win $45 immediately. 25% of the time, we end up investing $215 more into a final pot of, like, $460 with 1/3rd claim.

EV(fold) = $45
EV(call) = $460/3 - $215 ~ -$61.67

EV(total) = .75 * EV(fold) + .25 * EV(call) = $18.33 ~ 3.67 bb

We’re a little deeper than I’d like to be to make this play, but I think it’s still profitable given stacks. This hand benefits from being able to see all 5 cards.

Even though I almost never aim to put in 1/3rd of my stack to fold, against a typical 4bet range with AQ I think we are forced to.

Note that with a smallish preflop stack (which ~$200 is in a 1/3 NL game), all our preflop sizing should be with regards to offering poor IO to callers (I typically aim to offer poor 10:1 or worse).

For 3betting at this stack size, with enough dead money I would often just shove all in (something I'd lean to here if there was like ~3+ callers). Otherwise, I typically set things up to leave myself a PSB left to shove most flops (perhaps deviating from that plan if I smash the flop). So let's say we 3bet, he calls, and we have a PSB left on a T high flop. A PSB left is a good shoving size as it still has some FE heft (AK will likely fold, small pairs sometimes will... none of which will happen as often with like just a 1/2 PSB left as your opponent will figure "there is too much money in the pot to fold"). Meanwhile, if our opponent sometimes manages the call with the small pair, we give ourselves 2:1 to chase our 3:1 overs (not too bad when you take into account the pairs won't always call); if we hadda left a much bigger than PSB left to shove then we don't give ourselves as good of odds.

Gatleast,that'showIdothingsG

That's a good point, I was not aware of it. My math is a bit different that yours on EV(call) about -$100, but I think a good rule of thumb in those situations might be 3/4 * pot - 1/4 * my stack. Not saying that EV(call) = (-1) * my stack but it can't be less than that lol.

Thank you for explaining this to me. We still have some FE on a T high board, we have some showdown value if a Queen or an Ace shows up on the flop and some out if there is K or J. That makes sense.

Thank you, I had it the other way. I was probably calling with AQo here, but it makes total sense.

On the flip side, if he’s folding more often, then we get value on that end.

It’s a little deep, I’d like doing it more if I was more shallow. But it’s still a decent play

I try not to sit with less than the max buy in on the table. If I were sitting with $220 to start, and saw this action, with these reads, I'd probably just 3B all in.

My reasoning is that the table sounds loose, when there are multiple limps to the MP, who only raised to $15, which seems small over a couple limps, likely an indication of a weaker hand. We don't want to raise to $55-$60 bucks, and have the limpers, the MP opener, or the BTN thinking they're getting a good price to continue. We don't want to play OOP post-flop with a low SPR and a somewhat speculative hand.

If we were deeper, we could raise to $75 or even $90, get this heads up or maybe three ways, and still have a large enough SPR to navigate post flop. But with only $220 to start, we really can't 3B to a size that's less than all in but doesn't commit us to getting the rest in, and also accomplishes what we want. So let's just get it in now with a 3B jam.

It's always possible that MP was opening to $15 over multiple limps with a big PP, but that seems less likely than him showing up with a hand that can fold to a 3B jam for $220.

The other alternative is just flatting the raise, and going to the flop with a larger SPR and a well disguised hand.

I agree with these sentiments:

- $55 is too small a 3-bet size OOP esp with limpers and the BTN flatting the raise

- I wouldn’t raise/fold with our stack size

- shoving is fine

- flatting is fine when suited

Flatting would have been best multiway especially if you hit those diamonds!

If you are going to even 3 bet here I think you have to already put yourself into a fight or flight situation as to are we calling a jam or not. If I am playing short stacked before I even decided to enter with 55$+ that would be my thought process ( Advantage: make a plan before you do anything many players don't think past the two cards and their own played action ).

As played: I think you already donating to this pot 55$ we are a snap call (better to just jam the rest you don't want to think about the run out and how to play it. I mean we aren't folding anyways if we call 155$ having 65$ behind), if you are going to 3 bet it should have been more but either way we still call/jam.

Here's the flip side to this and this isn't even my logic but from a pro. Going smaller like around 1/5th your stack (40-45$) raise according to one of my hero's Danny Neg. suggests that you can safely fold at that range, however once you bet more it is a stack commitment when playing short stacked. The suggestion playing against most of your opponents unless you have extreme knowledge should be raising half of your stack for the 3! situation to dust off the V's if you are wanting to merely take it down or get it all in. He also has said in one of his pod casts if you are going to play a hand with a short stack you need to dedicate full concentration and absolute aggression because you can't afford mistakes and unnecessary donations.

I do play a lot of cash games but I play many many more tournaments then anything. When I see myself sitting with less then half the max buy in I am going to apply extreme pressure on any hand I play because there is so much more risk of losing chips when you are short.

With 220$ I'm getting in stacks w/ AQs. AQo is a harder decision and probably a fold.

55 is way too small - you'll likely end up with it going 3 ways (possibly more if there are limpers!) Standard squeeze size would be about 5x ie 75. With limpers in there you could go to 80 but then you're more than a third of your stack. Anything 70-80 would be OK.

You're now effectively being put all in by a player who could just call in position. That on its own - combined with being low stakes - is pretty solid information that MP has a hand, and it's probably better than AQ (you're unlikely to see much AJ or 88 etc, although you might see the odd bluff hand like A5s). The first paragraph is all good useful info but nothing conclusive about him as a player type other than he sounds reasonable. Folding looks fine with your stack size. Calling (ie shoving yourself) can't be terrible with a hand as good as AQs given that MP is never folding, but if his 4bet range has no/few hands worse than you to begin with then you could be in trouble