Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I'd tip all 3 of those spots more than a bad dealer. The guy is f'n dealing cards. The tip is a buck. Me not tipping is clearly communicating something that dealer is aware of as I would have said something before not tipping. Those other scenarios are genuine services

I've been looking through this post a bit but haven't found anything on my situation. Sorry if this is a little long.

I was a dealer for almost 7 years. I played on the side on and off as a hobby. For the past year I've been playing PLO professionally with great success. In my local areas, the PLO is time rake. There is no promo drop. So per 30 min I pay $6 or $7 depending on where I'm playing. Then tip on pots won. Otherwise everything else is profit.

I've always understood how tipping can affect your win rate. So as a dealer, I didn't get annoyed like my coworkers would if I knew a player only tipped $1 or $2 at most. Would I root in my head for the whale that would toss me a green bird if he won? Hell yeah I would. But I understand how much it adds up when paying rake and tipping, 99% of players do not do the math or understand. I mean just looking at the rake I pay is ~$25,000 per year if I play full time (1920 hours). If I play ~48,000 hands per year (25 hands an hour) and win say 15% of them since I play more LAG compared to other pros. That's 7200 hands. $1 per hand is $7200. If I average $5 per hand that's $36,000. I'm not sure how many hands I've played, how much I average in tips, etc. but you get the point, it adds up.

When I was dealing and just playing on the side, I didn't care how much I tipped. Now that poker is my only income, and I started keeping track, I can see now how much it's starting to effect me. I'd say on average I tip $1 to $2 per hand (mostly $2) with tipping $5 to $15 on larger pots. Biggest tip I've ever given since going pro was $100 which was way more than I should have. It was the biggest pot of my life (12k) and I had a couple of people basically shaming me asking me how much I tipped him after I originally tipped $50.. which was already a lot (they might not have seen what I tipped). In the moment I was excited with my adrenaline pumping and just threw another $50 to hopefully not look cheap. There are times I want to just tip $1, but everybody is looking my way since I just won the pot, so I tip more because I don't want to look bad and I know they'd tip much more.

I get this feeling my old coworkers I was dealing with for years think I'm cheap, even though I tip way more than most pros probably do. The room is a small room and not many pros come through. They have the recs throw them $5 every other hand and here I am throwing $1 or $2. They probably think I'm stingy since that was my profession before playing professionally, and I should "understand" how it feels and should be tipping better than everybody else.. but in reality that's backwards.

I've already heard from a friend of mine that plays professionally online (so they don't know that he doesn't tip a lot playing live) that he's heard from players talking at his home game that I play in that I'm a bad tipper considering I used to deal (I tip very well at the home game). He apparently told them "but that's not what he does anymore". I don't know the extent of the conversation. He understands though because he used to play live. He even said when he was staked, his backer told him $1 per hand, $3 at most but that's only if it was an absolutely massive pot. If his backer found out he tipped more than that, he was cut off or it came out of his own profits.

My issues are the guilt that I want to start tipping less, while playing with all of the players I used to deal to that tipped me very generously, how they view me (being potentially shamed at the table and looked down on for not tipping much), and tipping my old coworkers. If I was in a whole different area where nobody knew me, I probably wouldn't really care. I really don't know how to navigate this. I feel like the answer is just "stop caring what people think, just do you" but it doesn't feel easy to do. I don't want to be disliked by everybody around me.

this is with dealers who know me by name and i'll often talk to a lot and end up knowing quite a bit about them and their personal lives etc

i'll perhaps give a redbird if the pot is over 2k but that's about it - remember you're putting a lot of the money into those pots so it's not all profit and you're losing quite a few along the way as well - it's just not sustainable, like staking someone without any makeup

if i have no relation with them it's 99% $1 and sometimes $2 if the pot was huge

it's just not sustainable otherwise and those who i know well i'll straight up tell them that if i tip beyond that it's not sustainable for me which they say they understand

i think you're being held to an artificially high standard though, i've always seen people who work in industries that depend on tips usually tip the best, i've seen bartenders order a $7 drink and pay with a $20 all the time and like i get it, but at the same time, bro, that's just stupid and you've crossed the line from tipping to charity

What do you say to players who try to shame you? Like "really? you won a X sized pot and only tipped $2?" These guys are people I dealt to for years. So although they are being rude if they say something like this, I'm sure they think I'm being rude in a way for not tipping much. I want to be on everyone's good side for many different reasons (home game invites, they might soft play against me, friendly environment, etc.), so I don't want to say something back that might come off badly.

i have never had anyone say anything to me

if i did then i'd just say "well that pot was about my chips to begin with" or play it off with "i'm stuck 2k this week" or something like that

i think you're in a very tough spot because of your history as a dealer though

Speaking as a dealer who listens to plenty of other dealers in the break room, if you're going to play in a room where former coworkers are dealing to you and everyone knows you used to be a dealer...

If you're not one of the best tippers on the table, the dealers are going to talk badly about you, no matter how friendly you are and no matter how low maintenance you are. Especially if you play LAG and win lots of pots.

No judgment from me on this. Just telling you what your reputation is going to be.

Yeah for sure. Being a former dealer, I'd hear about it from coworkers all of the time. Even I complained at times, but it was more about an entire table being horrible for tips and not just 1 specific player. Unless there was a specific player just not tipping, or only tipping $1 and they make my life a living hell. But I'm also somebody who has studied the game and have played on the side for a while. Whenever I see any of my coworkers play somewhere, they are horrible players and way overtip. So I'm sure they expect the same from me.

Like one of them tips $5 for basically all pots, and $30+ on 1k+ pots. If he straddles, there's a limper, he raises and the limper folds, he just throws all of the chips to the dealer. Things like that.

I think either way, like you said, I'm screwed. Especially considering I play LAG and exploitative so I win more pots than other pros I know.

What do you say to players who try and tilt you? What do you say to players who try to goad you into straddling? What do you say to players who try to do blind flips with you? What do you say to players who want to do shots of alcohol with you? Etc. Etc. Etc.

Part of being an well adapted adult is not allowing peer pressure to affect your life choices. If someone comments on the amount I tip, I encourage them to show me up and give the dealer more money than I did. I try and feed the idea of them giving dealers money. Dealers will appreciate that.

Plus $2 per hand is fine (especially if you are a player who is easy to deal to which is likely if you were a dealer). Most dealers are appreciative of players who are there regularly and tip regularly. Sure, a big tipper makes a good night, but a consistent tipper (who plays fast and isn't a drama queen) is the one who pays the bills in the long run.

One other thing I have found that dealers appreciate is when a regular player lets a new player know about tipping. If I am playing at a table and there is obviously a player who is new to the game, if that player wins a couple of pots, I will generally try and let them know that tipping the dealer after a win is the custom. I never pressure them. I just let them know in a friendly way that it is normal (but also optional). Dealers appreciate this and it is a way to stay in a dealers good graces without using your own money.

I have never done this, but you just gave me a great idea.

The next time someone comments on how much I tip the dealer. I am going to get intona verbal confrontation with him and ask him how it is his buisness?

Then if I ever win a pot at that table with that dealer, I am not going to tip the dealer (right away.....). I am going to loudly announce that because the other player was being a jerk, I am not going to tip the dealer at all. I hope this gets the dealer all sorts of sympathy tips because of course I am going to tip the dealer later after he gets up.

I don't mind playing the villain if it helps the dealer.

As a current dealer I disagree with this.

Maybe I work with higher quality dealers, but most good, long term dealers would never ever talk bad about a consistent tipper, even if it is for a minimal amount.

Yes, every dealer loves whales who throw redbirds or even greenbirds when they win, but realize the consistent tippers are the ones who make their nut day in and day out.

I used to deal a high limit game that was almost entirely made up of recreational regs who were great tippers. The other seats were taken by a couple of professional grinders who had charmed their way into getting invited to the game each week by the host of the game. The recs would routinely tip $5 on small pots and $25 or more on big pots. The grinders would routinely tip $1 on most pots and $5 if they dragged a huge pot.

Now I'll agree that in most circumstances, a grinder who never fails to tip on any pot and occasionally tips $5 would be appreciated. But at a table where everyone else was tipping way, way more on a regular basis? Not so much.

I would 100% agree with this scenario. Tables where everyone is tipping whale amounts is the absolute best. No doubt.

However, it is near impossible to deal those types of games consistently. They are rare when working as a public dealer in a public casino. Even if they happen often, it depends upon rotation, etc.

You cannot measure the value of customers compared to the best customers. Obviously every other customer is going to fail compared to the best.

It is no different than a poker player thinking his absolutely best day is normal and he should turn pro based off of it. Sure he won 6 times his buy in. His hourly rate is $150+ per hour at $1/$3. Great. However reality is much worse than that. Just as every poker player worth his salt has had days where things go wrong and they lose despite being huge favorites, every dealer worth his salt has had days where table after table is brutal with long hands and minimal tippers.

Every dealer can tell a story of dealing a hand that takes 5 minutes or more and end up pushing a multi-thousand dollar pot and getting stiffed after it was over. Sometimes even in those situations a dollar tip can be absurdly frustrating. No doubt.

However a consistent tipper will always be there. They not make the best days ever, but they will help avoid the worst days ever and the thing is they don't hurt the best days ever either.

Before I ever dealt, I distinctly remember being in a hand with a whale. He may have been a nice guy but he was terrible at poker. He tipped really well. Usually at least $10 a hand. Often a green bird or two or three. A dealers dream.

Anyway, i won a small pot against him (maybe $200) and tipped the dealer $2. I said something to the dealer like "Sorry, I am sure you would have rather had the other guy win, you probably would have gotten $10 or $20." He said, "True, but you will also be here next week and tip me then as well. He won't. In the long run, I will make more off of you than him."

Consistency matters.

Put a different way, in most places in the U.S., a dealer who deals to a bunch of players who play fast, clean, and are not drama queens, if they are tipped $2 per hand, they can make a decent living. They will never be rich, but they will be able to do better than most. Especially given the effort involved. A table full of fast, clean non-drama queens who tip $2 per hand is great. No one would complain about that. Why complain about one player whomis like that?

phraust, I think winning a pot of 1K plus tipping 2-4$ seems ok. winning 1k and tipping 1$ seems kind of LOL if you ever seen anyone do that

i dont deal tho

i won a 6k video poker hand

the tech comes over to verify and then leaves to get the monies

he of course brings a friend for that despite that there's no reason for him to be there and i hand him a 20 and he gave me a "don't worry we'll split this" response that was clearly very disappointing

i didn't even feel like it deserved a $20 tip - the guy had nothing to do with the entire process and if that happens again i think i'll just not tip instead of getting flak for not having tipped "enough" to someone who was never even involved in the process whatsoever

IME for significant hand pays there are always at least two persons. Some places I believe it is any hand pay.

Tip what you want. They might be pooling anyway.

I don’t play video poker or slots, but I think I would tip a teller at my bank before I tip someone who paid me out in cash for hitting a machine.

also can't stand that they have a tip jar at the cashier as well

Tipping is 100% optional and anyone shouldn't be judged or feel pressured to do it. And it shouldn't have consequences on how professional the worker is.

Is it good to tip? Yes, of course.

Is it good to not tip? Yes, of course.

I'm sure that many people won't agree with me. And I just genuinely ask, (I'm just interested on the answers) for you which are the parameters to tip or not to tip?

Most of us will agree that we can't tip to everyone who is doing a good job for us. We should tip the people who clean the streets, the doorman, the uber driver, the supermarket cashier, the supermarket cleaner, the supermarket replenisher, the supermarket security people, the gym cleaner, the gym receptionist, the Amazon dealer, the casino dealer, the casino cleaner, the casino receptionist, the casino security people, and a large etc.

Which are your parameters? And do you tip everyone who is into those parameters that you are mentioning? If your parameter is..."because people do that", let me tell you that I think it's a really poor parameter and that you, overall, should have your own thinking of the why of things.

In my case, I do not like tipping because I don't know how to set those parameters, so I feel unfair just tipping some and not others. I only tip when someone's work catches my attention because of how well done it is and the kindness with which they have done it. It can be whoever, without taking into account whether or not you should socially tip them. I'm a bit maniac of thinking and having my own conclusions of things. I just live happier like that. Even if it's probably harder than living the "I just do it because I see people doing it" way.

Yea, this.

Also want to add, that culture of the people dealing is a very overlooked and less talked about nuance. I have worked with dealers from all over the Earth and a coworker turned players “reputation” as it pertains to behavior/tipping/etc., will likely be a function of their own cultural standards and expectations as it pertains to gambling as a whole.

Some people will feel like they should play somewhere else or not play at all if you aren’t going to tip well. Some will feel like you should be helping the table move smoother, and some won’t even care if you are being a drunken fool at the place you used to work.

lol the dealers will talk bad about you no matter if you are the best tipper. I used to tip 5 dollars a hand at 20/40, more for a big pot, and I still got a reputation as a bad tipper in my room. I realized that just not playing there was the best option. Even after I left dealing, because the expectation is still there for some reason.

That's crazy, but how did you even know that was your reputation?

I don't know why you would stop playing there. You might as well keep playing but completely stop tipping.
I have played mostly 20/40 for years, and I maybe remember one player who was a better tipper than you.

I knew that was my rep because I had lots of friends with all the service staff who had a shared breakroom. They loved me and told me what they had heard lol.

I think because they thought it was such a huge game with lots of action they assumed I should be good for a lot more? Idk. And the reason I stopped playing there because I don’t even want to think about anything other than poker while I’m playing and dealers are really bad at hiding how salty they get at a “bad” tipper lol

How much were other players tipping?
Hard to imagine them getting upset with you if others tipped less.
Your posts are really making me think that most dealers are a-holes who don't deserve to be tipped at all.