AK gets action
5/10, full ring, effective stacks ~2200.
V is a decent player, quite tight overall, not a crusher but probably a small winner, although I have played just a handful of sessions with him.
H is utg and opens to 30 with AcKd.
A bunch of callers, like 4-5.
V in SB squeezes to 230.
BB folds.
First decision point:
- shove (least favourite option, H being quite deep and IP) ;
- 4bet smallish, to ~450-500;
- call.
H calls, all others folds, HU.
Flop (pot ~600, effective stacks ~2000):
4s4h2s
V bets 200
H calls
On this flop I expect V to cbet range, although I am not sure about his range ...
Is a call too loose here?
Turn (pot ~1000, effective stacks ~1800):
Kc
V bets 450
H calls or shoves?
Comments on any street are welcome
21 Replies
Assuming you just called the turn bet, then nice hand so far.
I'm fine with it but I might 4-bet pre. Okay with flat too. Agree that shoving isn't necessary but depends a little on players who called behind.
Flop call IP for 1/3rd is standard, especially unblocking ♠
Turn you're going with it at SPR < 2 imo. Just calling down to keep bluffs and ♠ draws in.
I'm fine with it but I might 4-bet pre. Okay with flat too. Agree that shoving isn't necessary but depends a little on players who called behind.
Flop call IP for 1/3rd is standard, especially unblocking ♠:
Turn you're going with it at SPR < 2 imo. Just calling down to keep bluffs and ♠: draws in.
You have it backwards. You want the spade for backdoor equity here
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I probably would fold flop
He is quite tight, so what's his squeezing range into you and this many players? Seems as if it'd be pretty tight, right? How does he see you?
A smallish 4bet would have been good. As played, he doesn't seem worried about the K, and it looks as if he's setting up for a no-brainer river shove.
You know him better than we do, though. Will he fold AA or AK to a shove? Will he bet the K w/ JJ/QQ or whatever other hand he might squeeze with?
I don't mind the call on the flop too much, but when he continues on the turn, I think we have to give it up.
Grunch:
PRE - I just got my a$$ handed to me on this forum for 4B'ing pre with AK, so...just flat call.
That said, his 3B looks a tad small to me, so...a smallish 4B might not be terrible.
FLOP - How are you ranging V? Does he have worse AX in his range, or is it all just over-pairs to the board? Seems like we can continue to a 1/3 PSB with two overs, but if V really is pretty tight, I might just fold.
TURN - Seems like a pretty straightforward call. Not sure what worse calls a shove, or even a min-raise. If we were OOP, I might want to raise, but since we're IP, we can always bet river if V checks again, which seems at least somewhat likely.
Your situation was different because you raised way too large the first time and there were no calls in between. In this case you can 4b small then fold to a jam or jam yourself. Call I guess is ok but might let others in. Probably flop is a good without any backdoors. I mean you have to fold something here so, if you call with this hand what are your give ups?
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He is quite tight, so what's his squeezing range into you and this many players Seems as if it'd be pretty tight, right How does he see youA smallish 4bet would have been good. As played, he doesn't seem worried about the K, and it looks as if he's setting up for a no-brainer river shove.You know him better than we do, though. Will he fold AA or AK to a shove Will he bet the K
You actually want to fold the turn??π
SB is probably going to call preflop with quite a few hands facing a single raise, but is probably going to squeeze or fold pretty much everything with dead money. With that in mind I'd expect him to have hands like AJs, A5s, KQs, 99. Maybe wider (is he folding all AQo?). A 4bet is justified with AK and I don't want to be playing it multiway OOP to a load of field callers. I'd make the small raise and fold to a jam.
Flop and turn look fine
Call turn and evaluate river.
You can call turn, but that means you are calling river because nothing should really beat us if we are ahead now.
Thanks all for the feedback so far.
Here is my thinking process.
Preflop I normally 4bet with AK in position. In this specific case, I got confused on which size to use, due to a combination of stacks depth, V's squeeze size and dead money already in the pot. So, not knowing how much to raise, I just called; however, I should have taken my time to think and figure out a reasonable 4bet size.
In favour of my call, there is the fact that I did not expect any of the callers to come along after the squeeze, unless perhaps the first one who might occasionally trap with KK+.
As for V's squeeze range, not really sure, but I'd say TT+, AK, AQ (maybe not all the off-suited, but certainly some of them), AJs, KQs. I doubt V squeezes from SB with something like A5s or SCs, but who knows.
Overall, I don't think I am in such a great shape otf; for instance, if V has AK with 1 spade, he's free-rolling. On the other hand, this board is such an obvious range c-bet for the aggressor that I decided to call.
OTT, (no way I am folding π ) if we call, the pot becomes 1900 and we have 1350 effective behind.
If V has an underpair, he's going to c/f river like 100% of the time.
On the other hand, I am calling down a river shove almost always (folding only to a Q and, perhaps, a J).
So, basically, otr I am not getting more money from him if I am ahead, while he is getting the rest of mine anyway if I'm behind.
Therefore I was wondering if there is a merit in gii on the turn: I do not have much to lose, and perhaps he might occasionally fold AK (??)
Call, what’s the river?
Shoving turn is quite bad. Just call and see what he does on the river. Folding flop or turn is quite ridiculous.
Thanks all for the feedback so far.Here is my thinking process...OTT, (no way I am folding π ) if we call, the pot becomes 1900 and we have 1350 effective behind. If V has an underpair, he's going to c/f river like 100% of the time.On the other hand, I am calling down a river shove almost always (folding only to a Q and, perhaps, a J).So, basically, otr I am not getting more
Doubtful he folds AK on the turn, even to a jam.
Respectfully, I think you're over-discounting the possibility that V barrels the river with worse after you flat-call the turn. I'd suggest you work through the logic of your available options (excluding folding, since we know you're not doing that):
1. We jam turn - V snap calls with better. Not just AA, but also could be free-rolling with AKss. He mostly snap-folds with worse, though maybe occasionally he gets a case of entitlement tilt and calls with QQ, or calls with AXss.
2. We flat call:
2a. River's a brick, he checks, we bet, he folds AQ or whatever. We lose no value.
2b. River's a brick, he checks, we bet, he calls with worse, like KQ, or whatever. We get another street of value.
2c. River's not exactly a brick, it's a Q or J, he makes a strongish but still worse hand with AQ/KQ/AJs. He checks, we bet, he calls, or he bets, we call. Either way, we get another street of value.
2d. River's a brick, he barrels, we call, and win with TPTK. We get another street of value.
2e. River's meaningless, because we were already behind his AA. He bets, probably less than all in, we call, and lose, but we lose less than we do when we jam turn. If he jams, maybe we find a disciplined fold.
2f. River's a spade, he checks, we bet, and occasionally, he rage-folds, assuming we have a flush.
I'm probably overlooking some potential outcomes, but you get the idea. We're not really losing much if any EV by flat calling the turn and seeing the river. It's probably higher EV to just call.
As played I would say its fine and calling is fine on the turn too. I am not a huge fan of AK and it looks like it worked out so far I think I am just gonna flat any river other then a K in which I'll raise large to look like a bluff. Otherwise I don't think your getting value from raising what can they call with other then AA? I don't think its a good EV move to raise turn in any particular fashion.
im looking to mostly play call here preflop, sometimes shove. We will likely only get called by KK+ when shove, but we risk 2k to win approx 400 uncontested and benefit largely when we get villain to fold QQ/JJ/AK. AK retains a lot of its value by taking it down pre. In some configs, versus some players (think BTN vs SB vs aggro villian), I dont think twice about getting it AIPF with AK. In others, it's a blunder. Pre, im playing call here 75% of the time and shove 25%. Not a fan of clicking AK with SPR of basically 1. Split sizings and click some AA and A5s then build a shoving range around AK (as effectively a bluff) and KK/QQ sometimes.
post-flop, easy call on flop. turn is gin card that most villians will perceive better for them. never fold turn, or river either, and expecting to win 33% vs a bluff, value chop with AK 50%, and lose to AA / KK ~17% of the time. I see you shoved turn. massive blunder, espppp IP. but, I get where you're coming from.
nhnh
PF: My 4b size would be $600 here.
The decision depends on your range formation. As a standard, my range is very polarized here, so AKo falls between the poles. But in practice with a big juicy squeeze spot against a SB at 5/T and our 4b size probably being perceived as small, both their squeeze range is usually wider than it should be AND they will underfold to the 4b. In that case, I think merging with AKo is going to be very good. Not sure if I find it in game tbh...
Flop good, now flat turn, let's see a river!
