GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
Tbh, I feel like Lebron has already reduced Luka, and also that Luka has a physique that yields a short prime - his best dominance has already occurred and now we'll be forever chasing the dragon with him.. But again, Lebron has already turned Luka into Love.. Won't it be amazing if Luka never quite returns to form and is underwhelming alongside lebron, just like all the others
Luka hasn't had back-to-back games of 16 or less since 2021, so Lebron has already destroyed Luka's game, career, and legacy... Goat doh
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High-scoring ball-dominators score many unassisted buckets that leave teammates standing in spot-up roles with higher assisted rates:
....................................................... ASSISTED RATE
wade BEFORE lebron (04'-10'):........... 29.2%
wade WITH.... lebron (11'-14'):'.......... 40.3%
irving BEFORE lebron (12'-14'):.......... 31.9%
irving WITH.... lebron.. (15-17'):......... 32.7%
bosh BEFORE lebron (04'-10'):............ 55.8%
bosh WITH.... lebron (11'-14'):'........... 71.6%
love BEFORE lebron (09'-14'):.............. 62.7%
love WITH.... lebron (15'-18'):.............. 78.3%
mo BEFORE lebron (05'-08'):............... 39.2%
mo WITH.... lebron (09'-10'):............... 47.6%
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BY IMPOSING SPOT-UP ROLES, LEBRON LOWERED ALL HIS TEAMMATES' ASSISTS
ASSISTS PER GAME AS A STARTER WITH AND WITHOUT LEBRON:
12-14' Kyrie............... 5.8 (no Lebron)
15-17' Kyrie............... 5.3
18-24' Kyrie............... 5.8 (no Lebron)
04-10' Bosh............... 2.2 (no Lebron)
11-14' Bosh............... 1.6
15-16' Bosh............... 2.3 (no Lebron)
11-14' Love................ 3.0 (no Lebron)
15-18' Love................ 2.1
19-21' Love................ 2.8 (no Lebron)
05-08' Mo................... 5.7 (no Lebron)
09-10' Mo................... 4.6
11-13' Mo................... 5.3 (no Lebron)
09-10' Chalmers........ 4.2 (no Lebron)
11-14' Chalmers........ 3.6
99-04' Snow................ 6.9 (no Lebron)
06-07' Snow................ 4.1
01-05' Hughes........... 3.8 (no Lebron)
06-08' Hughes........... 3.3
2018 Ingram.............. 3.9 (no Lebron)
2019 Ingram.............. 3.0
20-25' Ingram............ 5.2 (no Lebron
2019 Kuzma............... 2.5
22-25' Kuzma............. 3.8 (no Lebron)
2018 Ball..................... 7.2 (no Lebron)
2019 Ball..................... 5.4
20-22' Ball................... 6.1 (no Lebron)
00-09' Jamison........... 1.8 (no Lebron)
2010 Jamison............. 1.3
11-12' Jamison........... 1.9 (no Lebron)
04-10' Wade............... 6.6 (no Lebron)
11-14' Wade............... 4.7
19-22' D-Lo................. 6.7 (no Lebron)
23-25' D-Lo................. 6.2
09-21' Westbrook....... 8.5 (no Lebron)
2022 Westbrook..........7.1
15-18'' KCP.................. 2.0 (no Lebron)
19-21' KCP................... 1.6
22-25' KCP................... 2.2 (no Lebron)
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8 of 8 "DOMINANT CHAMPIONS" THAT AVERAGED 1 LOSS PER ROUND OR LESS (4 LOSSES MAX) REQUIRED BIGS OR JUMPSHOOTERS AT 1ST OPTION FOR THAT PLAYOFF RUN:
1. 2017 Warriors (16-1).............. DURANT
2. 2001 Lakers (15-1).................. SHAQ
3. 1999 Spurs (15-2)................... DUNCAN
4. 2024 Celtics (16-3)................. TATUM
5. 2023 Nuggets (16-4).............. JOKIC
6. 2007 Spurs (16-4)................... DUNCAN
7. 2002 Lakers (15-4).................. SHAQ
8. 1997 Bulls (15-4)..................... JORDAN
4 0f 4 "DYNASTIES" THAT MOSTLY WON FOR A MATERIAL STRETCH OF 5+ YEARS (I.E. 3 IN 5) REQUIRED BIGS OR JUMPSHOOTERS AT 1ST OPTION:
1. CHICAGO BULLS..................... JORDAN
2. LOS ANGELES LAKERS)........... SHAQ
3. SAN ANTONIO SPURS............ DUNCAN
4. GSW WARRIORS...................... CURRY
^^^ 12 of 12 instances of dynasties or dominant champions (the best basketball) required bigs or jumpshooters at 1st option.
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Thread Cliffs
If a player's career assisted rate is below 40%, then they're a primary ball-handler, aka ball-dominator... But the problem lies with high-scoring ball-dominators like Lebron, since they have a high volume of unassisted buckets that lowers the team's assist capacity and increasingly places teammates in spot-up roles with higher assisted rate (1)... The increased spot-up roles for teammates are a direct funnel to Lebron's assists, while reducing his teammates' assists, thus causing low-assist teams compared to the typical champion (2, 3).. Low assist teams are the Achilles heel of high-scoring ball-dominators because every series loss of Lebron's playoff career shows deficits in team assists, except the goat choke in the 11' Finals.
Furthermore, by turning everyone into spot-up shooter, ball-dominators prevent elite roster construction, so they can't be the leading scorer for dynasties or dominant champions, as shown in the previous post above (0 for 12)... Since ball-dominators can't produce the best basketball, they're inferior to the best of other skillsets that can, such as bigs or jumpshooters (12 for 12).. This puts Lebron and all ball-dominators outside the top 10 all-time (behind the best bigs and jumpshooters)... With ball-dominators outside the top 10, the actual top 10 is a subjective mix of bigs and jumpshooters, such as MJ, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Jokic, Magic, Lebron, Oscar.. This is actually a top 13 with ball-dominators bringing up the rear.
We saw duos like Durant/Curry and Jordan/Pippen win without good centers and get destroyed at that position, so why can't Luka/Lebron do the same?
And why does Luka get a pass for being "rusty" with a ready-made 32-20 high-seeded team, while Jordan got hammered for not immediately carrying a .500 ballclub to the title after 2 years playing baseball?.. Of course it's common knowledge that 25-year olds in their uber-prime are never "rusty", smh - Luka simply doesn't fit with Lebron, which everyone already knows, so he will crater just like Westbrook, Love and dozens more..
The lesson is to never put your faith in guys like Brian Windhorst, Stephen A, and others, who claim that the Lakers just need more help - they don't - they just a better star duo than a couple of ball-dominators like Lebron and Luka, so they can produce sufficient chemistry to win with bums at center like MJ and Curry did.
Luka hasn't had back-to-back games of 16 or less since 2021, so Lebron has already destroyed Luka's game, career, and legacy... Goat doh
He's coming back from an injury where he was out a month and half ffs.
Jesus Christ you and baby sample sizes.
Luka is more of a pure scorer than Lebron but neither are "closers", so they lack skills that allow a player to live off quick scoring upon the catch, such as hook shots, "knock-down" catch-and-shoot at high volumes, turnarounds, etc.. Since they aren't really closers, they NEED closers, but unfortunately neither is good at providing it, and therefore can't provide what the other needs.. It's just a bad fit.
I just looked at the stats for the last game, and some interesting things popped out of the boxscore
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Thread Cliffs
If a player's career assisted rate on field goals is below 40%, then they're a primary ball-handler that scores mostly unassisted by teammates, aka ball-dominator... But the problem lies with high-scoring ball-dominators like Lebron, since they have a high volume of unassisted buckets that hurts the team assist ranking over time and increasingly places teammates in spot-up roles with higher assisted rates (1)... The increased spot-up roles for teammates are a direct funnel to Lebron's assists, while reducing his teammates' assists, thus causing low-assist teams compared to the typical champion (2, 3).. Low assist teams are the Achilles heel of high-scoring ball-dominators because every series loss of Lebron's playoff career shows deficits in team assists, except the goat choke in the 11' Finals.
Furthermore, by turning everyone into spot-up shooter, ball-dominators prevent elite roster construction, so they can't be the leading scorer for dynasties or dominant champions, as shown in the previous post above (0 for 12)... Since ball-dominators can't produce the best basketball, they're inferior to the best of other skillsets that can, such as bigs or jumpshooters (12 for 12).. This puts Lebron and all ball-dominators outside the top 10 all-time (behind the best bigs and jumpshooters)... With ball-dominators outside the top 10, the actual top 10 is a subjective mix of bigs and jumpshooters, such as MJ, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Jokic, Magic, Lebron, Oscar.. This is actually a top 13 with ball-dominators bringing up the rear.
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Assisted Rate in loss vs Utah
Lebron... 100%
Luka......... 83%
That's got to be a first
Unfortunately, it's too late to learn how to play.
I just looked at the stats for the last game, and some interesting things popped out of the boxscore
That is interesting — when LeBron and Luka were highly assisted for this game, they got blown out by a terrible team. Which coincides with the statistical fact that assisted fg % is often negatively correlated with wins. Which factually proves, using mathematical science, that assisted fg % is not correlated with team success. This factually proves, using the laws of mathematics and logic, that it is other factors, features, variables that are impacting team success. Not assisted field goal %. Science, math, and statistics are excellent tools for proving things like this.
That is interesting — when LeBron and Luka were highly assisted for this game, they got blown out by a terrible team. Which coincides with the statistical fact that assisted fg % is often negatively correlated with wins. Which factually proves, using mathematical science, that assisted fg % is not correlated with team success. This factually proves, using the laws of math
Team APG is strongly correlated with the best basketball, such as champions, dynasties and dominant champions.. However, high-scoring ball-dominators like Luka and Lebron produce low assist teams that get less out of rosters and make it harder to win, while being entirely incapable of the best basketball (dynasties and dominant champions).
Regarding Luka and Lebron reading this thread, getting shook, and deciding to go an entire game while 100% assisted by teammates - well, it proved that they stink off-ball because they were annihilated by a bottom-dweller and horrible team... Therefore, they can't just switch and turn into Karl Malone or run the triangle - I'm proven right on that even though it's intuitive that career ball-dominators can't morph into off-ball players, just like Shaq can't turn into a Steph Curry and shoot threes.
Otoh, Wizards MJ easily beats those Jazz with no cast, and he would win the title if he had a great cast like Luka as a teammate - MJ would fit like a glove with Luka, Westbrook, Love, Bosh, Ingram, Hughes and everyone that Lebron couldn't fit with.
4 chips in 23 seasons with the kind of help that Lebron had is a complete joke, failure and fraud.... 50 to 100 players would have 5+ chips with the teammates that Lebron had in his career, and some guys like MJ or Duncan would have 10+ chips...
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Assisted Rate in loss vs Utah
REAVES............ (PG)
LEBRON........ (forward)
LUKA............... (off-guard)
As off-ball players, Lebron and Luka couldn't even begin to keep up against the worst team in the West.
Otoh, Jordan went 6/6, so this union of Lebron/Luka will prove me correct that they can't play off-ball and obviously not in the triangle, lmao.. The horrific off-ball play by today's player is why the triangle never won outside of MJ or his clone.
50-100 players win 5+ with Lebron teams minus Lebron.
That is definitely the dumbest thing said on this site.
50-100 players win 5+ with Lebron teams minus Lebron.
That is definitely the dumbest thing said on this site.
There used to be plenty of talk about how well Nash would fit with Wade/Bosh and how they would easily win at least 3 chips in 4 years... I think 50+ guys could go 3 for 4 with Wade/Bosh, and then do the same with Kyrie/Love.... And if they only win 2 in each spot, they would still win at least 1 with AD.
People fail to recognize that many players would have 60-70 win juggernauts with Kyrie/Love, but Lebron couldn't win 60 games even one time, which caused a fall to underdog after starting as the preseason favorite.
Overall, Lebron had 1 sixty-win season with 2 all-stars from 11' to 17', and this huge underperformance in the regular season caused a fall from preseason favorite to underdog most years.. Fans complain about "Finals comp" but Lebron's teams were initially favored and simply ceded the dynasties to opponents.. If Lebron wins 70 games with prime Kyrie/Love in 2017 instead of a pathetic 53, then the Finals would've been a clash of titans like the 80's Celtics/Lakers, instead of the perceived "mismatch" that people only claimed after the series was in hand (not before the series).
The reality is that Lebron's most powerful teams were his 2009 and 2010 organic juggernauts that were building real organic chemistry and effective basketball... They would've figured it out and there was a 1-star organic chip up for grabs in 2011 that Dirk grabbed... But the seasoned Cavs would've had the long-standing chemistry and reputed defense to destroy Dirk's Mavs, and these were the 2 things the Heat lacked (chemistry, defense).. Unfortunately, Lebron gave up on learning the chemistry required to win with the roster he was given and opted for talent-based winning (all-star team strategy), which means he never really learned how to win, and only learned how to team-hop.
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Assisted Rate in loss vs Utah
REAVES............ (PG)
LEBRON........ (forward)
LUKA............... (off-guard)
^^^ LOL these busters tried to play off-ball and were blown away by the worst team in the West... 😃
Otoh, Jordan went 6/6, so this union of Lebron/Luka will prove me correct that they can't play off-ball and obviously not in the triangle, lmao.. The horrific off-ball play by today's player is why the triangle never won outside of MJ or his clone.
Regarding Luka and Lebron reading this thread, getting shook, and deciding to go an entire game while 100% assisted by teammates - well, it proved that they stink off-ball because they were annihilated by a bottom-dweller and horrible team... Therefore, they can't just switch and turn into Karl Malone or run the triangle - I'm proven right on that even though it's intuitive tha
I don’t think Luka Doncic and LeBron James are reading this thread. But anyway, that is an interesting argument that a single game defines whether a player can play off-ball with a high assisted fg% or not. Let’s apply that logic:
In the 2016 playoffs, where LeBron and the Cavs won the NBA title, LeBron James exceeded a 40% assisted fg% 13 times. It went as high as 72.7%. He won 12 of the 13 games, in the playoffs, where he exceeded a 40% assisted fg%. And won the NBA championship against the team with the greatest regular season record of all time.
So applying your logic of one game defining whether a player can have a high assisted fg % or not, we have conclusively proven that prime LeBron can do this because he did it 13 times (going 12-1 in those games) in the 2016 playoffs and won the NBA championship. It is historical fact, which proves your entire premise wrong.
Good try though fallguy. Looking forward to what you come up with next.
Why else would they both have 100% assisted rate in a game then?... We know they don't play this way and they probably never had such a game before.
But regardless, they clearly tried to play off-ball for a full game, but simply stunk at it, lol... The issue was that they couldn't get up enough shots that way, so they had low volume that couldn't keep up with the worst team in the West... lol.. I've been proven right and will continue to be proven right just like the last 22 years of watching perennial losing with every cast and coach, due to a skill restriction to ball-domination (AAU style).
12 times where he exceeded a 40% assisted fg% in the 16' Playoffs
he averaged 42% in the 2016 playoffs overall, and 26.8% in the Finals, so no.
you have to understand how we reverse-engineered this thing to know why career assisted rate is the proper criteria.. it's pretty simple, as follows:
firstly, the historical record tells us that 0 of 12 dynasties or dominant champions had leading scorers that were primary ballhandlers, and the only stat that separates this skillset is career assisted rate.. Anyone with below 40% is a primary ballhandler and therefore cannot be leading scorer for a dynasty or dominant champ (the best basketball)... Again, these low-assisted 1st options, aka "ball-dominators" are the only skillset that is excluded from being 1st option for the best basketball, and these ball-dominant 1st options represent a healthy chunk of total 1st options.
I'm pretty sure LeBron James has been tossing and turning and having sleepless nights for the last 10+ years because he has failed to convince Fallguy that he's a good basketball player.
“I’ma go with LeBron. Underrated just means you’re not rated at your right value right? I think LeBron’s underrated.”
- Wemby, responding to being asked who the most underrated player in the league is currently
