Bet sizing multiway when a few opponents are short stacked
I believe the two hands below share some similarities - we kind of have to adjust our bet sizings because two or more villains are short stacked, but the question is how much?
HAND 1
Hero had ATss on the button. Hero had the table covered (400+).
UTG limped 2, two mp limped, CO limped, which makes at least 4 interested parties to see the flop.
Normally I would make it 20, but among the interested parties, some hand 40, some had 90, some had 150.
How should we adjust our opening size, assuming the players at the two blinds are not overly aggressive?
HAND 2
Hero opened red 66. Hero opened to 10 from mp, over one limper. Hero had 190.
LP1 called (150 effective), LP2 called (70 effective)
Two EP called (they both had us covered).
5-way.
Flop (50) 5s 6c 7c
EP1 checked, EP2 bet 15.
How much should we raise to, given both LPs are on the short side and we have no info.
Thanks in advance!
3 Replies
The main thing in situations like hand 1 is to make sure you leave yourself the option to re-raise if the $40 goes all in. We might or might not do it on this particular hand, but many times this is extremely valuable.
Hand 2, we are short enough ourselves that we never mind getting all in. However, the same principle applies. There's a decent chance the $70 in particular will just decide to go all in with hands like pair +straight draw. There will be situations where we want to make sure we can reraise. In this hand I think you need to make a massive raise anyway. I guess you could be kind of sneaky and call hoping one of the short stacks goes for it, but this might not be the best set up for that. I would just raise to an amount where you will be getting odds to draw to a boat no matter what the turn card is. All in might be the best play. Often, short stacks will be inclined to just gamble here, getting nice odds on their money.
The main thing in situations like hand 1 is to make sure you leave yourself the option to re-raise if the $40 goes all in. We might or might not do it on this particular hand, but many times this is extremely valuable.Hand 2, we are short enough ourselves that we never mind getting all in. However, the same principle applies. There's a decent chance the $70 in particular wil
Thanks. I like your point.
I have seen before when a for-profit player 3-bet AKs and then the initial flatter jammed (short) but AKs was not able to re-raise, so he had to see the flop with 4 other players. That's when I realized how the short-stacked players can mess around with the bet sizes.
Is this 1/2, or 1/3, or 2/3, or 2/5? I'm just going to assume it's 1/3 for the sake of discussion.
HAND 1 - if the shortest stack is $40, I'm not too worried about raising and getting stacks in with him. Probably not too worried about the $90 or $150 stack either, depending on the action and positions, unless they're super-trappy type players who will limp in, just praying some aggro player (like me) will raise.
I'd probably raise to $25 or even $30, with plans to fold if a super-trappy EP player jams for more than 3.5x my raise size (exact multiple dependent on how much dead money is already in the pot, and the positions).
HAND 2 - On this board, where we're losing to 98, 43, and 77, and probably not folding out anyone's flush draws or OESD's, I think I'd just flat call, praying one or both of the short stacks behind us jam, so we can re-jam whenever action gets back around to us.
ETA - to the point ES2 makes, about the betting being re-opened - the $90 and $150 stacks shouldn't be flatting our $20-$30 raise very much. But of course, at low stakes, we see that all the time. I'd expect them to mostly jam or fold rather than call off a $25-$30 bet. If we raise to $25-$30, and they call, and the $40 stack jams, it sucks, because they're probably coming along. But they will sometimes sigh-fold because their hand was trash that wasn't worth the $25-$30 they already called off, as stupid as that is. Even when they do call, they'll usually play pretty face-up post-flop.
I'd be more cognizant of the bet sizing in situations where we're considering a 3B in a pot where there's already been a raise and a call, with someone involved being short-stacked.
As an example, a hand I played Friday - MP player opens to $15 off of about $500. Short stack ($245) calls. I 3B from the BB to $75. MP 4B's to $225 (huge 4B size given his stack size, but whatever), and the short stack jams for another $20. Knowing the betting wasn't re-opened, I had an easy call, getting 3.3 to 1. If MP was thinking, he'd have 4B to $150.
