Cbet KK4,r 5-way OOP?
1/2 NL. I have about 330, most villains cover. 4 limpers and SB completes. I raise to 15 from the BB, all limpers call, SB folds. Of course I could have made it larger, but it is often all call or no one calls. Flop is KK4, r, about 70 in the pot. Should I cbet not hitting this? If so, what size. Does it matter if I have TT or AQ?
11 Replies
With AQ, I am never c-betting the flop.
With TT, I am sometimes checking the flop, and sometimes betting small, probably betting slightly more often then checking.
Why would it matter much if you have TT or AQ?
I actually had TT, bet 30, 2 players folded and the 3rd raised to 75 and took it down.
I don't like his raise with a K, as it insures he gets stacked if I have AK/KQ, which I am representing. It would be a good play as a bluff, but I don't think he was bluffing.
Wondered if I was just burning the 30.
Pot is about 70
30 into 70 seems a bit big on this flop.
I would bet like 20% - 25% and expect to take it down sometimes in my live game.
Also you will get some calls by random floats and pocketpairs that you have equity against.
I would then proceed accordingly.
I raise to 15 from the BB, all limpers call, SB folds. Of course I could have made it larger, but it is often all call or no one calls.
Make it larger. If no one calls, that is fine.
If you make it $22, occasionally you will only get 1 caller. The larger sizing dissuades the trash from calling but if someone has a low pair or a good suited hand, they will still call.
TT vs AQ - it definitely matters. TT is a value bet and AQ is an airball bluff OOP into the entire field. Personally I would check both but I think betting TT is good and betting AQ isn’t.
Well, when you bet with AQo you rarely get called by a worse hand. With TT there is a good chance that lower pairs stick around. You also get the chance to stack 44/Kx on a T turn.
It does seem kind of optimistic. But if ranges are wide enough it could be +EV. I think Flopzilla Pro has a multiway feature. You could input their ranges and see how often they have a K.
With AQ, I am never c-betting the flop.
With TT, I am sometimes checking the flop, and sometimes betting small, probably betting slightly more often then checking.
Just for clarity youre saying you never cbet any flops assuming you miss with AQo?
5-handed, and 2nd to act, never cbetting KK4r flop with AQ.
I'm trying to imagine a flop that I miss, that I would bet. Maybe if I had a strong sense that the entire field was going to fold to my bet, but yes without any strong reads, I'm just giving up on my hand on the flop. And then if checked through on the flop, I'm checking all turns cards except A/Q.
5-handed, and 2nd to act, never cbetting KK4r flop with AQ.
I'm trying to imagine a flop that I miss, that I would bet. Maybe if I had a strong sense that the entire field was going to fold to my bet, but yes without any strong reads, I'm just giving up on my hand on the flop. And then if checked through on the flop, I'm checking all turns cards except A/Q.
How about monotone flop
At some tables, if you make really large raises, you will take it down preflop a high percentage of the time. I thought I might take it down making it 15. Think you have to adapt sizing to the table.
When it goes 5-way, the pot is pretty big. I would cbet with air certain dry flops that favor the raiser. Might bluff at some dry flops if not the raiser. Paired flops are good to bluff at, but not usually monochrome ones.
OOP and with 4 opponents behind, I'm almost never c-betting the flop. Exceptions would be when I have a hand that is nutted, vulnerable, and sneaky, like 77 on 752 two-tone.
That said, if we have to choose, I might prefer to c-bet with TT, not AQ, because TT could benefit from some protection, and has the potential to cooler someone if we boat up and they make a straight, or just have trip K's. With AQ, we can't really be sure our hand is any good if we hit an ace, or go runner-runner to make a straight or flush.
Why would it matter much if you have TT or AQ?
I actually had TT, bet 30, 2 players folded and the 3rd raised to 75 and took it down.
I don't like his raise with a K, as it insures he gets stacked if I have AK/KQ, which I am representing. It would be a good play as a bluff, but I don't think he was bluffing.
Wondered if I was just burning the 30.
Why bet 30 into 70? Why not 15, or even 10, when it's so multi-way? Seem unlikely even a small c-bet is going to induce an opponent to get out of line and try to rep a K or 44, in a multi-way pot.
ETA - reading the rest of the replies - I agree we could go larger pre, but I'll defer to your judgment about bet-sizing in whatever game you're playing, since you see the table dynamics and history we don't.
