AA pre-flop at 2-5
V1: Aggressive. Can 3-bet light.
V2: Seemed like a solid player.
Hero $800 eff. (UTG) opens AA for $20.
V1 3-bets $80 from SB
V2 4-bets $200 from BB
Hero?
-Is there any option other than all in?
-Is flat calling the $200 ever a play here?
-Does raising to $400 achieve anything?
22 Replies
A "solid player" who 4-bets 25% of his stack even though the original raiser was UTG is never folding to a shove. The LAG's hand is irrelevant, since he's likely folding regardless unless he has QQ/KK.
Agree with AF. When a solid player cold 4-bets after an UTG open and SB 3-bet, his range is QQ+/AK at worst and in some games KK+. Pile it in pre. And if anything, shoving looks weaker than 5-betting small.
If we raise, I'd just jam, not raise half my stack facing this action from decent players at 2/5. A jam could look like AKs/A5s or QQ/JJ, maybe.
Flatting to trap is an option when we're IP. Not a bad option, though we need to be willing to get it in on just about any flop when it'll be 1SPR, assuming V1 also calls. If V1 is aggro, I could see flatting with the hope he'll 5B.
Flatting is going to be higher risk / higher reward. Could go either way depending on how likely it is V1 5B's and how willing I am to gamble on a clean flop.
If it had been the aggro player 4b then flat calling could be used to prompt a flop cbet, but no matter what you do your hand is going to look strong, like JJ+,AK or even narrower.
Agree with above, the standard is to shove for 160bbs.
Result: I ended up just shoving. I considered flatting the $200, but I assumed V1 would likely come along for only $120 more (not ideal). Had the 4-bet been a bit larger (around $240), I think I would have flatted since V1 is folding more.
Yeah it's a pretty standard play, just ended up stinging since V2 told me he folded KK❗️.
Also side question, am I jamming AK also here also? (against a solid player capable of folding say QQ?)
Result: I ended up just shoving. I considered flatting the $200, but I assumed V1 would likely come along for only $120 more (not ideal). Had the 4-bet been a bit larger (around $240), I think I would have flatted since V1 is folding more.
Yeah it's a pretty standard play, just ended up stinging since V2 told me he folded KK❗️.
Be happy a win is a win is a win is a win is a win (damn I've been playing too much stanley parable)
A solid player should see right through the $400 raise and what else would you have besides AA? Maybe they would still struggle to fold a big hand for $200 more but if they think ahead to the flop they would know they often get stacked after calling the $200 PF.
I think shoving really looks like AA too although it does look a little less likely.
If you want to be results oriented, raising with AA and facing a 3-bet, a 4-bet and winning 100% of the time is a better result than you normally get with AA or any other hand. And you didn’t make any obvious mistakes in the hand.
OP, I think you played this hand well. I don't think it's unreasonable that BB folded KK here. This configuration (UTG vs SB vs BB) should be extremely tight. I think your 5bet range here should be something like KK+ AKs. Just because Villain folded KK doesn't mean you can go crazy jamming here with anything.
This seems egregiously false.
I like the shove. I don’t think anything else makes sense. Sometimes any action other than folding is going to give away your hand strength, so just play aggressively and hope they make a mistake.
Result: I ended up just shoving. I considered flatting the $200, but I assumed V1 would likely come along for only $120 more (not ideal). Had the 4-bet been a bit larger (around $240), I think I would have flatted since V1 is folding more.
Yeah it's a pretty standard play, just ended up stinging since V2 told me he folded KK[emoji779]️.
There is never anything wrong with $300+ uncontested.
This seems egregiously false.
I like the shove. I don’t think anything else makes sense. Sometimes any action other than folding is going to give away your hand strength, so just play aggressively and hope they make a mistake.
It was tongue in cheek, hence the wink emoji. See my initial response. I advocated for shoving.
Your shove might be the right preflop play, but I think your 5-bet looks very very strong, and I would expect solid players to fold QQ, AK, AKs facing your 5-bet.
The only alternative to shove is to flat call, which maybe looks not quite as strong. Then there are some reverse implied odds, as you are getting it in regardless, but the other or others can maybe fold if they miss.
Result: I ended up just shoving. I considered flatting the $200, but I assumed V1 would likely come along for only $120 more (not ideal). Had the 4-bet been a bit larger (around $240), I think I would have flatted since V1 is folding more.
Yeah it's a pretty standard play, just ended up stinging since V2 told me he folded KK[emoji779]️.
Console yourself with the knowledge that sometimes they call and we win, sometimes they call and suck out. We're not going to get stacks in and win every time. You got a good result and added almost $300 to your $800 stack. Take the W and move on.
Also side question, am I jamming AK also here also? (against a solid player capable of folding say QQ?)
I think in theory we're supposed to play AA/KK/AKs the same way, but in practice at low stakes it seems okay to be unbalanced, and not jam AA.
Curious if you'd jam KK here. If so, then I'd think you'd also want to jam AKs, for the express purpose of folding out QQ and lower PP's. Otherwise I'd think you'd be spewing when you flat with AK.
The only alternative to shove is to flat call, which maybe looks not quite as strong. Then there are some reverse implied odds, as you are getting it in regardless, but the other or others can maybe fold if they miss.
It does maybe pick up another 120 from the aggro V1 if they overcall. H kicks themselves a lot though when the flop inevitably goes monochrome or KQJ, etc...
I doubt V2 folded KK too.
This is the tightest setup possible. Even if SB can 3bet light, you'd expect this to be strong hands the vast majority of the time - TT+, AQs+, AKo, A5s, maybe one or two other hands if he's aggro. BB is probably going to be QQ+/AK at the widest - and may well just fold AKo and QQ a fair bit.
What other hands are you jamming here other than AA? Just AKs? Maybe KK?
Now a call might induce a jam from SB's AK - but given that BB likely double blocks AK/KK, as do you, then SB is fairly limited combo- wise and more likely has QQ-TT which might fold even if you just call. I think it depends a LOT on your image - are you seen as tight? As in, does your jam mean you have AA only? Would just calling attract suspicion?
Given that BB has AK/KK so often, I might actually be tempted to call, expecting the money to go in easily postflop and I'm not really concerned about any flops at all. Then it doesn't really matter what SB does. But jamming is obviously fine.
I could believe that BB folded KK to a jam - one of those "I'm sure he had it" moments people like to brag about whether it's a good play or not.
