GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
It was perceived as choking (just not by you, because you are extremely bias). The biggest in NBA history.
I never fully appreciated the 82 thing with Mike. That's a sick games played record. Dude was about vicious cut throat competition every minute of every game. That's also a selling point for the game, a fan appreciation thing.
This shyt is approaching volumious.
I never fully appreciated the 82 thing with Mike. That's a sick games played record. Dude was about vicious cut throat competition every minute of every game. That's also a selling point for the game, a fan appreciation thing.
Fan appreciation: playing 82 games in 9 of 15 seasons, retiring twice during your career, not mentioning the Wizards or their fans once in your HOF acceptance speech
Fan disrespect (apparently): playing 22 years at an all NBA level (well, for 21 straight of them) and still competing hard as a billionaire at 40
lOGiC
Fan appreciation: playing 82 games in 9 of 15 seasons, retiring twice during your career, not mentioning the Wizards or their fans once in your HOF acceptance speech
Fan disrespect (apparently): playing 22 years at an all NBA level (well, for 21 straight of them) and still competing hard as a billionaire at 40
lOGiC
The NBA has reached a point where only 1 team is seriously covered... ESPN speeds through the highlights of other teams with no emotion and then spends the rest of the show ardently covering the Lakers and Lebron's prospects for #5... Jokic has the highest PER that anyone ever had, yet no one is talking about his prospects for #2.
It's an absurd farce and everyone knows that the only way Luka got to play with Lebron is fraud - it's easily the worst ever.... because it's fraud.... The league stacked the deck for Lebron in plain view to boost ratings... Players and coaches go along with it - i.e. no one is getting yelled at by the coach in the locker room after a loss to the Lakers - everyone knows the deal.. It's a giveaway game.
So I hate to burst your bubble but no one is playing hard against the Lakers... This is a fact to anyone that understands how the world works and humans... The "trade" for Luka was a signal to the league - "you don't matter - only Lebron does, so let Lebron win"... Everyone already knows that the Lakers are the only team that is seriously covered.. So what incentive do opponents have??.. Opponents won't get covered or praised for beating the Lakers - the story will be how the Lakers need more help and hand-wringing that Lebron might not get #5.
Again, it's a farce... No goat candidate should get to play with the best player in the league, unless he's a fake goat ... So we'll have to wait until the playoffs to see if teams still lay down and if players have reached the point of caring more about Lebron's legacy and fulfilling the media's wishes over their own.
So I hate to burst your bubble, but no one is playing hard against the Lakers... This is a fact to anyone that doesn't watch the NBA for more than a decade.
fyp
You simply don't understand the ramifications of the media favoring and covering only 1 team and 1 player - this has consequences.
It's human nature to not try when you won't get credit or praise, and will actually be hated for winning.. It happens on a conscious or unconscious level... The footage backs up what I'm saying, not what you're saying - the transition defense by the Knicks, Warriors, and Nuggets gives off all-star vibes - pretty stunning tbh - simply not trying.
I can't imagine thinking like you guys - i.e. buying into the biggest BS in the history of sports and having the league lead you on like WWE fans... and having the media convince you that a perennial loser who needs the best players gifted to him and still produces perennial losers (incapable of a great team regardless of cast) is actually the best player to ever live.. It's the dumbest thing that I can think of off the top of my head...
But i'll just say "1 for 6 with AD"... "Couldn't win 60 with prime Kyrie/Love"..... "2/4 with wade/bosh including goat choke and record loss"..... Accordingly, the guy is a bum, beta, and can't win with normal casts of 1 franchise player like everyone else - he ushered in an era of less competitiveness via collusion, load management and easy-scoring format - he ruined the league, so no one watches anymore, which means that everyone is following my lead.
I never fully appreciated the 82 thing with Mike. That's a sick games played record. Dude was about vicious cut throat competition every minute of every game. That's also a selling point for the game, a fan appreciation thing.
In 2002, Jordan's legacy was already set as the GOAT, so he wasn't worried about appearances and therefore didn't need the league to stack the deck for him.. He was excited to contend with a lottery cast that he led to the 4 seed before his injury near his 39th birthday.
Otoh, Lebron went 1 for 6 with a rich man's Pippen (AD), and 2/4 with 2 Pippen's (wade/bosh), and he could even win 60 games with prime Kyrie/Love... Accordingly, he's a fake goat with insufficient titles, FMVP and the worst winning frequency of any top 10 candidate, so he needs the league to send him the best player (luka) - he would've retired already if he had a cast like the Wizards because he isn't a real man like MJ.
Fan appreciation: playing 82 games in 9 of 15 seasons, retiring twice during your career, not mentioning the Wizards or their fans once in your HOF acceptance speech
Fan disrespect (apparently): playing 22 years at an all NBA level (well, for 21 straight of them) and still competing hard as a billionaire at 40
lOGiC
Well that is the thing isn’t ….
If you stick to play 60 games per season without any physicality at all and not have to deal with being closed lines like in wwe , pretty easy to last an eternity unless u are 7 feet tall aka Kareem .
Never forgot if it would of been legal Kareem join the nba at 18 like LeBron did , LeBron wouldn’t be the leader in pts and game played still …
Ps: letting aside all the facilities like travel etc that makes the life much easier today .
No one thinks that, not even you
Everyone knows that Lebron's performance in the 2011 Finals is the biggest choke in NBA history
Nop , not from a guy outside top 10 when you got 2 guy top 5/10 ever (in their prime !!) with 2 hof like Malone and the glove failing so miserably vs the piston (not even 1 player top 75 I believe lol ?) .
I guess the pressure of 4 peat was too great -> biggest choke ever !
those ARE the results - high-scoring ball-dominators produce low-assist teams over time that have the lowest title frequencies of any skillset and cannot produce the best basketball no matter what they do (dynasties or dominant champions)again, these ARE the results... There's really no debate because I'm just informing you of the historical record.^^^ Lebron won nothing with n
Doesn’t matter .
LeBron result is -> he still won and accomplish more then many other players top 10 .
Did Shaq, Kareem , bird , magic ever won with nobody’s?
And they at some point failed miserably too …
Get real ….
The goat standard of 3-peating had already been reached, so Kobe's bad series wasn't perceived as choking... You don't knock a 3-time champion that finally loses for the first time, but you knock a fighter that keeps choking in the championship and can't get his first win.... And Kobe was historically-clutch by hitting a historic game-tying shot to send Game 2 into OT - it's th
Lot of nonsense but why you condemn LeBron losing in 2011 when Kobe ( on a double champion with that team) got swept by them ?
At least LeBron won 2 games .
See the double standard .
If mavs was so bad , man what a choke by Kobe getting swept with a 2 peat team ….
You are so inconsistent and incoherent, only huge amount of hate can blind a man like that .
Ps: again all players fails at some point , u just disregard all of them but Lebron …
Lot of nonsense but why you condemn LeBron losing in 2011 when Kobe ( on a double champion with that team) got swept by them ? At least LeBron won 2 games .See the double standard .If mavs was so bad , man what a choke by Kobe getting swept with a 2 peat team ….You are so inconsistent and incoherent, only huge amount of hate can blind a man like that .Ps: again all players fai
You want me to knock it 5-time champion for having a down series??
Sorry, but that's never been done by anyone ever.
Otoh, a guy like Lebron choked in his first 2 Finals by playing worse than anyone ever has in both, while having the 2010 meltdown sandwiched in between.. And let's not forget the historic upset loss to Dwight as -700 favorite - he was horrific in clutch-time during that series and personally lost the series with 7 turnovers in the 4th and OT of critical game 4 - this was Lebron's first major choke.
So there's no comparison - Kobe was 5-time champion and a clutch god, while Lebron had no rings and kept choking every year.
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Lebron's chokes pre-decision
07' LEBRON FINALS..... 22 on 36%... 6 TO's
08' LEBRON ECSF......... 26 on 35%... 5 TO's
10' LEBRON ECSF......... 21 on 34% for last 3 games to lose 2-1 lead as colossal -500 favorite
And let's not forget the 09' ECF where Lebron had 7 turnovers in the 4th and OT of Game 4, and he was a 12 TO per game player in clutch-time for the series.. This made him one of the 10 biggest favorites to ever lose a playoff series (-700) - the loss was a shock and surprise to virtually everyone.
Doesn’t matter .
LeBron result is -> he still won and accomplish more then many other players top 10 .
Did Shaq, Kareem , bird , magic ever won with nobody’s?
And they at some point failed miserably too …
Get real ….
When Lebron had normal casts of 1 franchise player like Jordan, Jokic, or Curry, he couldn't win anything and lost catastrophically every year (see previous post).
That makes him inferior and a choke artist compared to Kobe.
Since he couldn't win with normal rosters like most of his peers and needed to form super-teams with 3 franchise players - this makes him inferior... Vastly
When Jordan lost to the Bad Boys in the 1990 Eastern Conference Finals, he averaged 26.7 on 35.5% with 5.3 TO's per game to lose a very winnable series in 7 games... That's a choke by anyone's standards and a massive one - I don't know if anyone has ever averaged 35% and 5 TO's in a series.
Oh wait - I got the names confused - it was Lebron that wet the bed in a winnable 7-game series with 26 on 35% and 5 TO's in the 08' ECSF... It was his 2nd major choke after 22 on 36% and 6 TO's in the 07' Finals - this performance at 22 years old was a joke compared to 22-year Amare dominating the 05' Spurs with 37 on 55%, or 22-year old Kobe dominating the 01' Spurs with 33/7/7 on 53%..
So Lebron had a ton of weaknesses that included turnovers, jumpshooting and imposition of spot-up roles (ball-domination)... He still has most of these weaknesses to varying degrees.. In addition to the chokes in 07' and 08', Lebron had the worst-ever defensive blunder of defending Courtney Lee in the 09' ECF instead of Hedo or Rashard, while his 7 turnovers in the 4th and OT of Game 4 won the series for Orlando - Lebron was a 12 turnover per game player in clutch-time for that series.. This choke in 09, coupled with the chokes in 07', 08', and the 2010 meltdown were the precursors that should've predicted the goat choke in 2011.
Accordingly, Lebron was a massively-choking player and the media simply lies and pretends otherwise.. In addition to his chokes each year from 07' to 11', he's 0% on championship game-winners or tyers (0-7), with zero scores on the last possession of 1-possession Finals game in 10 Finals.. He's also only 37% in the playoffs overall on game-winners, with only 40% clutch-time efficiency (48% for old Jordan in 97' and 98' with 20% greater burden/attempts).. 4 of Jordan's MVP's included titles compared to only 2 for Lebron and no scoring titles or DPOY, so Jordan's MVP caliber was higher, while his team winning was obviously higher with 3-peats and 72 or 69 win seasons.. There is no real debate - only a fake one.
You want me to knock it 5-time champion for having a down series??Sorry, but that's never been done by anyone ever.Otoh, a guy like Lebron choked in his first 2 Finals by playing worse than anyone ever has in both, while having the 2010 meltdown sandwiched in between.. And let's not forget the historic upset loss to Dwight as -700 favorite - he was horrific in clutch-time durin
If Lebron choked every year he wouldn’t had 4 final mvp .
How many Kobe has ? Ah yes 2 ….
And why ? Thx Shaq and even with Shaq he lost vs piston lol .
Biggest choke ever !
2 top 10 players / 3 top 20 players ? (Malone ?) / 4 top 75 players can’t beat a team composed of :
0 top 75 players and almost got swept lol .
Lebron worst choke ever but still won 2 games while Kobe got swept by the same while Kobe had a championship team lol .
Poor fall guy -> keep flooding nonsense …
.Lebron's chokes pre-decision 07' LEBRON FINALS..... 22 on 36%... 6 TO's08' LEBRON ECSF......... 26 on 35%... 5 TO's10' LEBRON ECSF......... 21 on 34% for last 3 games to lose 2-1 lead as colossal -500 favorite And let's not forget the 09' ECF where Lebron had 7 turnovers in the 4th and OT of Game 4, and he was a 12 TO per game player in clutch-time for the series.. This made
Here couple players never won without a « normal roaster » :
Kareem , magic , bird , Russel.
When Jordan lost to the Bad Boys in the 1990 Eastern Conference Finals, he averaged 26.7 on 35.5% with 5.3 TO's per game to lose a very winnable series in 7 games... That's a choke by anyone's standards and a massive one - I don't know if anyone has ever averaged 35% and 5 TO's in a series. Oh wait - I got the names confused - it was Lebron that wet the bed in a winnable 7-game
Mj the goat , no idea why you bring him up .
You say Lebron not top 10….
Stick with that .
Here couple players never won without a « normal roaster » :
Kareem , magic , bird , Russel.
All those guys won more rings, except Bird, who had 3 straight MVP's and has a super-quality chip in 84' where he defeated max defensive attention (carried scoring load for playoffs and on championship level/Finals)..
So again, those guys won more with the stacked teams than Lebron did, while guys like MJ, Kobe, Curry and jokic won with normal rosters.
And again - carrying the scoring load is more important than being a great individual defender because carrying the scoring load allows the GM to find good defenders and have #1 defense like the 86' Celtics.. Otherwise, if you can't carry the scoring load like Lebron, you need expensive offensive help like Luka, AD and Wade and it's hard to build a good defensive team - and that's what we see with Lebron's team.. He needs so much offensive help that the GM's hands are tied defensively.
Furthermore, scoring is also the star category, so carrying the star category means winning with less stars... i.e. maybe McHale is a franchise player, but that's it, so Lebron needed an extra franchise player to win as 1st option, otherwise he was 2nd option to AD... So he needed more help because he can't carry the scoring load like Bird in 84'...
And we know why Lebron can't carry the scoring load and win with less stars like highly-assisted guys like Bird, Curry, Kobe, or MJ - it's because he's too ball-dominant at carry-job volume to beat top teams, whereas Curry and company can drop 40 while the ball moves and crush a top team.. This ability to carry the scoring load allows the best highly-assisted guys like Curry and MJ to win with non-franchise guys like Klay or Pippen, instead of needing franchise guys like AD, Luka or Wade (and then 3rd options that are franchise guys like Love, Bosh and Kyrie).. Lebron's skillset needed the most help in history and still had lowest win frequency, so he's not top 10.
So, just checking. No point trying against the Lakers because of all the attention they get. Which most people would think is a reason to actually try harder against them. Because when you beat them you will get attention, unlike say beating Charlotte. But that's just crazy talk.
No one thinks that, not even you
Everyone knows that Lebron's performance in the 2011 Finals is the biggest choke in NBA history
Biggest choke in NBA history is widely considered to be Warriors losing after leading 3-1 to the Cavs after winning 73 games and being one game away from being considered a Top 3 team of all time.
You don't want to talk about it because, you know, it makes LeBron look good.
Don't believe me.
Google "biggest nba choke of all time".
Every link I clicked on was the Warriors at number 1.
If the Lakers lose, the story will be whining about the Lakers needing a center or how Lebron didn't get enough help.. So teams don't get any attention if they beat the Lakers and they aren't covered before, during or after the game - they simply aren't covered - the entire league is covered with a Lebron and Lakers bent or angle... Again, there's consequences to this and it's ultimately WWE
FG - "Everyone knows"
FSP - Shows it's not the case.
FG - "But to me, I'm everyone so only what I make up matters"
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Biggest choke in NBA history is widely considered to be Warriors losing after leading 3-1 to the Cavs after winning 73 games and being one game away from being considered a Top 3 team of all time.You don't want to talk about it because, you know, it makes LeBron look good.Don't believe me.Google "biggest nba choke of all time".Every link I clicked on was the Warriors at number
Nah because of the Silver angle - everyone knows what happens if the most well-oiled machine ever doesn't get suddenly shut off mid-series without enough time to get back humming again... Also, they had just enough gas in the tank for 70 wins and the title, but the Draymond suspension and other injuries ruined it.
The Cavs were also preseason favorites with 3 franchise players compared to 1 for every other team in the league, and everyone viewed their "big 3" as the more stacked team talent-wise... The stats and 538 charts show that the 11' Heat and 15' Cavs are the greatest collection of top talent ever, until KD responded.
Lebron also had the "Magic/Bird" team-up with Wade, so he can't then go lose in historically-choking fashion and also record blowout in 2014 - 2 historic losses that bookended a win over babies and a teammate bailout.. Again, 50+ guys do equal or better than that.. Lebron teamed up with the equivalent of Bird/McHale or Kobe-Pau and then got mostly destroyed in historic fashion.
But ultimately, the 11' Finals was just 1 of many examples of Lebron playing worse than Kobe, MJ and others ever played - the 2010 meltdown was a historic disaster as a -500 favorite that caused the "decision", while the 07' and 08' series losses (35% and 6 TO's) were the worst anyone ever played.... In addition to these specific examples of historic bed-wetting (and many more), he's out of the top 10 because his skillset produced the worst chemistry (spot-up roles & low assist teams), so he required the most help in history but still had lowest win frequency... Guys with super-teams like him won more chips (Russell, Magic, Kareem), and then other guys won with normal rosters (Curry, MJ, Jokic, Duncan, Kobe, etc).
