GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

No one has Lebron's choking resume, such as playing worse than anyone ever has in the 07' Finals and 08' ECSF (35% and 6 TO's) - no one ever played that badly, and then the historic meltdown in 10' that caused the decision, or the goat choke in 2011...

That's 4 major chokes and also losing as a -700 favorite to an injured, 1-star team...

Lebron also has horrific clutch efficiency and never even scored on the last possession of a 1-possession Finals game (0-7)... Then he lost by record amount in 2014 and lost a 2-1 lead to Booker in 2021, while also losing lost 4 straight 4th quarter leads to Denver..

So Lebron has the best case for goat choker and also goat loser because he has a losing record with every type of good team.. This includes 3-4 with preseason favorites, 4-6 with Finals teams, 4-7 with all-star teammates, 4-5 with 1 or 2 seeds, and 3 losses with homecourt... Ultimately, Lebron's skillset needed the most help in history and still had lowest win frequency, so he's not top 10.

Yeah that one too .

Lebron in the last game of 2011 final
9/15 .600 21/4/6
4th quarter -> 3/5 .600 7/1/1
CHOKING

Steph curry in the last game 2016 final:
6-19 .316. 17/5/2
4th quarter 1/6 .167 3/0/0
NO CHOKING

Steph curry ,
only 1 mvp final ,
biggest choke in history losing a never heard before 3-1 lead with the team having the most regular season win ever and being the only unanimous mvp player that year .
It’s all good top 10 , np for FG .

Lebron james ,
« Only » 4 final mvp ,
one very bad performance (for goat standard not for top 10) in 1 final vs a team that swept Kobe championship team the year before …

*but made the greatest comeback ever vs a strong team (most regular win ever ) and a top 10 player ever in the pinnacle of his prime !
(which supposedly LeBron isn’t a top 10 , increasing even more the choke caliber of curry ! ) .
Nah man LeBron lost when he shouldn’t , never a top 10 for FG

lol…

Fine let’s say it’s true shrug , that is when they all actually play right ?
So why 2015 matters ? Kyrie Irving missed 5 games !

You complain about warrior lost 2016 is not the biggest choke because green (a much weaker player then Irving , I hope we agree on this ?)
missed 1 game but terrible loses for lebron in 2015 because his second option Irving « only » miss 5 games ?

No bird didn’t and all those guys had even better team then LeBron had shrug.

Kyrie averaged 29 in the 17' Finals but Lebron's your-turn-my-turn skillset lost by record amount with 2 franchise players as teammates.. The so-called goat cannot lose by record amount with 2 other stars like Lebron lost in 14' and 17'.

Btw, we'll witness Lebron's your-turn-my-turn skillset lose this year with Luka - we'll witness again why he's inferior.

And don't complain about Kyrie's injury because you lebron fans want to praise him for beating the 18' Celtics without Kyrie.. So stahp it.

When you have a lie, then you lost.

No one has Lebron's choking resume, such as playing worse than anyone ever has in the 07' Finals and 08' ECSF (35% and 6 TO's) - no one ever played that badly, and then the historic meltdown in 2010 that caused "the decision", or the goat choke in 2011...

Imagine melting down so hard that it makes you give up and team-up with opponents... When Lebron first entered the NBA, no one expected him to give up after Year 7 and team up with opponents thereafter.

It shows that Lebron is a child in his own mind because he tantrumed when he found out that Mommy was dating.. Mental weakness is the hallmark of Lebron's career.

So that's 4 major chokes of horrific performance (07', 08', 10',11') and also losing as a -700 favorite to an injured, 1-star team in 09'.

Lebron also has horrific clutch efficiency and never even scored on the last possession of a 1-possession Finals game (0-7)... Then he lost by record amount in 2014 and lost a 2-1 lead to Booker in 2021, while also losing lost 4 straight 4th quarter leads to Denver..

So Lebron has the best case for goat choker and also goat loser because he has a losing record with every type of good team.. This includes 3-4 with preseason favorites, 4-6 with Finals teams, 4-7 with all-star teammates, 4-5 with 1 or 2 seeds, and 3 losses with homecourt... Ultimately, Lebron's skillset needed the most help in history and still had lowest win frequency, so he's not top 10.

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Would Bird still call MJ "God in basketball shoes" if MJ averaged 22 on 36% with 6 TO's per game in the 86' 1st Round??... And what if during another series, MJ lost in 7 games and averaged 26 on 35% with 5.3 TO's??... These would be considered epic chokes.

Yet for some reason, Lebron wasn't knocked for choking in a winnable series during the 2008 ECSF.

It was his 2nd major choke after 22 on 36% and 6 TO's in the 07' Finals - this performance at 22 years old was a joke compared to 22-year old Kobe dominating the 01' Spurs with 33/7/7 on 53%, or 22-year Amare dominating the 05' Spurs with 37 on 55%.

In addition to the chokes in 07' and 08', Lebron had the worst-ever defensive blunder of defending Courtney Lee in the 09' ECF instead of Hedo, while his 7 turnovers in the 4th and OT of Game 4 won the series for Orlando - Lebron was a 12 turnover per game player in clutch-time for that series.. This choke in 09, coupled with the chokes in 07', 08', and the 2010 meltdown were the precursors that should've predicted the goat choke in 2011.

In addition to his chokes each year from 07' to 11', he's 0% on championship game-winners or tyers (0-7), with zero scores on the last possession of 1-possession Finals game in 10 Finals.. He's also only 37% in the playoffs overall on game-winners, with only 40% clutch-time efficiency (48% for old Jordan in 97' and 98' with 20% greater burden/attempts).. 4 of Jordan's MVP's included titles compared to only 2 for Lebron and no scoring titles or DPOY, so Jordan's MVP caliber was higher, while his team winning was obviously higher with 3-peats and 72 or 69 win seasons.. There is no real debate - only a fake one.

So obviously no one tried against the Bulls then. Everyone knew that MJ was the NBA's cash cow and a rising tide lifts all boats.

It actually makes a lot of sense now. No wonder no team could take them to a game seven in the Finals, they weren't even trying (all the media focus would've been on MJ) plus the refs and Stern were actively colluding against them.

I mean, do you actually believe that every series would've been done in six or less if it was actually on the up and up? ****ing NBA, it's all theater. Bird and Magic age out and now it's MJ's turn to have the NBA Illuminati behind him. Pathetic.

That's why Jordan stepped away, he was tired of the charade and wanted to try a legit sport like baseball. Of course he failed when he wasn't propped up so it was back to sucking on Stern's teet w/ the Nike machine behind it all.

It's basically the same playbook they did with LeBron except they learned to make it a little more believable and dramatic.

Bird won 3 MVP's in a row and had a better quality chip in 84' than Lebron ever had by virtue of defeating max defensive attention (carry scoring load on championship level) - Lebron always needed a teammate to score nearly as much as him, thereby attracting defensive attention away from Lebron - he never defeated max defensive attention (never carried scoring load on championship level).. An inability to carry the scoring load requires expensive offensive help, which takes away for the team's defensive capacity.... Ultimately, guys with super-teams like Kareem, Russell, or Magic won more than Lebron, while the best highly-assisted players won with normal casts (Curry, MJ, Jokic, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk), or 3-peated (Shaq).

Perhaps during the 2nd three-peat, the media favored 1 team and spurred the Bulls to victory while deflating opponents on some level in the process.

That's fine... But it wasn't anywhere nearly the level of what we're seeing now with Lebron, and Lebron isn't winning like MJ was - he doesn't actually deserve the boost... It's not like Lebron is in the middle of his 2nd three-peat and carrying his team like Jordan.

And there certainly was zero favoritism in 86' when Jordan was "God in basketball shoes"... Again, would Bird have said that if MJ averaged 22 on 36% with 6 TO's??.. And if Jordan lost in 7 games by averaging 26 on 35% with 5 TO's, wouldn't that be called an epic choke??.. Yet Lebron gets a pass for his 08' 2nd Round, or 07' Finals - for no reason - there's no reason to give him a pass.

KG
Dirk
Giannis
Jokic

All got their one title (it was their "turn"), doesn't that seem fishy? They even threw a bone to Canada so that they wouldn't check out.

Obviously the NBA picks and chooses who they want to reward. For example, they've never liked Chris Paul so they wouldn't let him go to the Lakers, wouldn't let him win with the Clippers, and wouldn't let the Suns title when they were clearly the best team. It was Giannis' "turn". They obviously don't like Utah either and don't think them winning would be good for business (you're welcome MJ). And they REALLY don't like Seattle (you're welcome MJ).

Isn't it funny how MJ largely beat small market teams? They let those teams make the Finals to give them hope and keep them in business, but no chance the NBA was going to let MJ lose to a Seattle, Portland, or Utah (not to mention Orlando or Indiana in the East). He beat the Lakers when it was his "turn" so they helped with that one for sure.

It wasn't his "turn" yet. Just like when LeBron was the best player ITL in '07.

They let him get to the Finals (unlike MJ) but he had to wait for his "turn".

You know what? I'm sorry for pushing back on so much of your insight bc it's all starting to become clear.

The problem with LeBron was he tried to cut the line. He wasn't a good soldier waiting for his "turn" like MJ and Dirk and KG did. He wanted to title before he was 30 so he took control of his own situation.

Little did he know that he would be bucking history and tradition and as a result? No more help from the NBA. If LeBron had waiting until it was his "turn" they were going to give him the exact same package they gave MJ. But nope, therefore Stern got him back with some serious chokage. If Bron hadn't been such a diva he'd have seven or eight titles right now as he's obviously more professional in his approach and would've been able to add a few titles later than Mr Burnout did.

Nonsense because Lebron is the only guy being covered year after year, while Dirk, Giannis and Jokic weren't covered before, during or after they won the title... When Dirk had the greatest title run and won with the biggest talent deficit in Finals history, the story was that Lebron choked and scarred his legacy, or how the Heat roster needed tweaking and Lebron needed more time and help to win in Miami.. The story wasn't how we could get Dirk his 2nd ring and start considering him for top 15 or better.... So none of those guys were covered before, during or after they won the title - it's basically forgotten that all those guys won titles.... And did Giannis win?.. I can't remember because I haven't heard the media mention it or even refer to him as a champion.. Jokic and Giannis have been better than Lebron for about 5 years now but you wouldn't know watching the coverage because only 1 guy is getting covered and rooted for.

Explained by a subsequent post.

It's all been payback against LeBron. It's actually crazy he was able to title 4x bc everyone is against him after he "cut the line".

Coincidence that both Kyrie and Kevin Love got hurt when he went to the Finals with Cleveland after playing his back and forth game switching teams? Coincidence that Wade became a shell of himself overnight at the end in Miami? Coincidence that Anthony Davis was coined "Street Clothes" while playing with LeBron?

Laughable.

Hello? They had to wait their "turn".

The "turn" happens because of chemistry development, and the media doesn't cover organic winners, so your whole idea is wrong - Isiah wasn't covered when he overcame the Celtics and Lakers - Isiah was fighting uphill against public sentiment and media favor of the Celtics and Lakers... MJ overcame the same uphill battle by beating the media's favorite (Magic), and the dynasty Pistons before that.. Jokic overcame the darling Lakers and Lebron in 2023, while Giannis was also fighting media hate when he won.. Ditto the petulant Kawhi - no one wanted him to win.. Of course the Lebron fans certainly didn't want a poor man's Jordan to beat the Curry Warriors easier than Lebron did.

Furthermore, Lebron isn't winning like MJ was and doesn't deserve a "turn" for 15 years (2011-2025) of mostly futility and embarassing losses ... It's not like Lebron is in the middle of his 2nd three-peat and carrying his team like Jordan when he enjoyed the media boost from 96-98'..... and Jordan won the 1st three-peat by overcoming the media favorites at the time (Magic and the dynasty Pistons), so his first 3-peat was an uphill battle and came during a time of higher league integrity with honest/unbiased coverage..

Essentially, Jordan's ascension to GOAT during the 1st three-peat is what broke the media - the first and only "GOAT" broke the media by making them chase the dragon for the next "GOAT" - this made them biased and choosing favorites, winners and losers.. It's quite sad and pathetic when you take a bird's eye view of the whole thing.

And there certainly was zero favoritism in 86' when Jordan was "God in basketball shoes"... Again, would Bird have said that if MJ averaged 22 on 36% with 6 TO's??.. And if Jordan lost in 7 games by averaging 26 on 35% with 5 TO's, wouldn't that be called an epic choke??.. Yet Lebron gets a pass for his 08' 2nd Round, or 07' Finals - for no reason - there's no reason to give him a pass.

Jokic, Giannis and other champions aren't covered before, during or after their titles, so they never had a turn.. Lebron is the only player that has been favored by the media for the last 15 years since 2011... And unlike 96-98' MJ, he doesn't deserve it because he isn't winning or 3-peating, or carrying his team.. He's getting carried by other stars and perennially-losing, yet we still have to tolerate this media BS and lauding him for his perennial losing and horrific fits that require more help.

MJ = Organic winner
Organic winner ≠ Media attention

Man, how famous would MJ be if he'd gotten media attention?!?!?

Well he can't. There's a conspiracy against him bc of all the hate he's engendered (diva switching teams, bucking trends and forcing the league office into a spot-up role).

Again, the only players with "turns" of media favoritism is 96-98' Jordan and 2011-2025 Lebron.

The difference is that Jordan was 3-peating, so the favoritism was justified, while Lebron is perennially-losing, so it's just a charade and a desperae one.

Jordan earned the favoritism that he got in 96-98' by 3-peating against the grain from 91-93' against media darlings and dynasties... And without preseason favorite status in 91' (or an all-star teammate).

Yeah, no one knew who MJ was in the first 3peat.

The Bulls weren't expected to win heading into the 91' season, so MJ earned it by beating the league dynasty and then the league darling in the Finals.

Otoh, Lebron was gifted ready-made favorites in 2011 and became the media darling without earning or winning anything.. Instead of dismissing him after his 2nd straight choke in 2011, the media tripled-down and forced the public to pay even more attention and get him more help..

Consequently, opponents felt like "the bad guy" or "villains", while Lebron's teams became the "heroes".. By 2025, this charade has produced the least competitive league ever as far as guys playing hard and giving a sh*t.. The Lakers are often a convenient giveaway game for some teams as they're happy to fit the narrative on a given night - if they find themselves down early, basically quiet quit the rest of the game and watch reporters and media be happy about it.

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Hughes was 26 years old and coming into his own with 2 straight seasons that out-produced 1990 Pippen:

04' HUGHES.................. 17.8 PER... 0.088 WS/48... 19/5/2
05' HUGHES.................. 21.6 PER... 0.157 WS/48... 22/6/5... 1st Team All-D
90' PIPPEN.................... 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 16/6/5

But he simply sacrificed his peak years to get destroyed by bron-ball, just like Kevin Love and others did (Luka, Bosh).

The 2007 Spurs exposed that a 22 on 35% player won the East (and 6 TO's), so Lebron wasn't anywhere near the best player in 07'.. This was confirmed in 2008 when Lebron did the same thing against the Celtics (26 on 35% and 5.3 TO's)..

So Lebron wasn't a viable player against top teams until he received the all-star spacing that his stiff arm needed to open up his game in 2009 - this all-star spacing lifted a 45-win loser to 66-win league favorite.. Then they added another 2x all-star in 2010 that outplayed Lebron in the 07' 1st Round and was a rare 20k scorer - it's pretty nice to have a better scorer than Pippen as your third option, and better defensive ranking than the 1st three-peat Bulls.. They also added a better center than MJ ever had (old Shaq)... Accordingly, the 2010 Cavs were a 7th Year organic juggernaut that only lost because Lebron had a historic meltdown in the playoffs, which caused "the decision".. This was the first of 2 meltdowns, since he would have another one the following year in 2011.

Ultimately, the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas added a 1st team defender that was better than 1990 Pippen to make their first playoffs in 2006 (stats above), so 07' Cavs had a decorated cast and top defense that MJ would've 3-peated with, and others like Curry or Duncan would've won with.

Great but that isn’t the point ….
Lebron won more and was the best players in the final more then many top 10 .
And those that had more , had better team then LeBron .

Ps: who cares about regular season and yeah bird got 3 mvp straight so what .
Lebron has 4 lol ….

Lebron easy top 10 , especially if u have curry in your top 10 .
Curry beats LeBron in nothing at all and had the biggest choke job vs lebron .

Try find other talking points , in the end u just can’t pass over what Lebron accomplish and won , shrug .